Primary sour fermentation in stainless? Ferm temps?

[TrickyDick]

Hey,

Planning to brew a sour fruit beer and split into three for the secondary fruit additions. Was thinking it'd be easiest to use my SS conical, but thinking that contamination might be a problem with the bugs in the ECY bug farm blend. Option two is to split into plastic buckets. Be low on headspace though. How vigorous is the primary with ECY01? I haven't used it before. If I go plastic the buckets will have maybe 1.5 gallon- 2 gallons head space (6.75 gallons into each in the large buckets sold by AHS) as I think they hold 8 gallons. Also, what is the recommended fermentation temp for that blend?

thanks

TD


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[MileHighBrewer]

Ferment the beer until you think it tastes good THEN split and add fruit. How much wort are you going to be working with to start anyways?

 

[TrickyDick]

Thanks

Yes I plan to ferment for a " while " before splitting up and adding fruit.
I plan to begin with between 13.5-15 gallons. I normally brew 10 g batches and use the 14 gal ish conical or a pair of buckets or the square plastic dog food bin sold as the brew cube by AHS. I am somewhat leery of using the brew cube because I would then only be able to use for sours as I doubt I could eradicate the bugs. Stainless may be possible to eradicate bugs but plastic and silicone seals may be compromised. I could pressure cook them though or even autoclave at the office.

This batch will be bigger than I normally do and I had planned to add top off water after the boil to achieve desired gravity. I suppose I could do that later on during racking but then would have to boil and cool the water without introducing oxygen which always sounds like a pita to me. It may be necessary this time.

Fitting two of the AHS 8 gallon buckets is fine in my temp controlled freezer. Three won't fit. The slimmer buckets I could probably fit three. Two brew cubes probably will not fit. The conical will fit. If I use the conical I'd have to dilute when I rack onto fruit since it won't hold a full 15 gallons. The two AHS buckets could but with little to no headspace during primary. I would worry about that, even if I use ferm cap.

I think the smartest plan is to try and fit three slim 5 gal buckets into ferm space and split amongst the three versus using stainless conical and racking to plastic or glass later with some dilutional water to achieve desired volume. Note that fruit will also have a minimal dilution effect.

I really want to know
1.). Can I eradicate bug farm from stainless conical, valves, seals, etc?

2.). How vigorous is the fermentation of bug farm and can I get away with minimal headspace if I decide to use plastic instead.

3.). What temp to ferment at


Thanks

TD


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[MileHighBrewer]

Ferment at normal temps, I've done so with good results. Fermentation can be....vigorous. The higher the temp, the bigger the ferm. SS can be cleaned just fine...the gaskets/seals....most would say its fine, but many will say better safe then sorry. If you can get another set of gaskets and such without breaking the bank it wouldn't be a bad idea.

I'd ferment in the SS, and then rack to glass carboys or better bottles for souring. Remember that fruit will take up some volume as well. Maybe 5 gal fermenters, and put in 4 gal of wort to sour. If there is abundant 02 a pellicle will form to protect the beer. Either one of those is a better choice then buckets. Plus they aren't terribly expensive, I get Bubbler plastic carboys for about 22$ for 5gal from the LHBS.

 

[TrickyDick]

Thanks.

Anyone know where to buy the three piece TC ball valves like the ones on the Blichmann conicals? These come apart with a TC clamp, the others I've found have bolts to disassemble. they have Teflon seals inside. I might be able to process these when disassembled in an autoclave, but would be more convenient to have a sour set and a clean set.

TD


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Edit- found a source... Thanks.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Bugs + Bleach = No Bugs. I'd roll with the SS conical and soak it afterwards. If it's good enough for hospitals to sanitize some really nasty bacteria I'm sure a few beer bugs don't stand a chance.

 

[TrickyDick]

Good point.

I bought a second set of valves and gaskets for doing sours. Might be overkill but why not. I read that Vinnie C has sour dedicated gear. The valves are relatively cheap compared to an entire conical.
TD



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[FredTheNuke]

I'm so addicted to sours that I don't have a "second" set of gear... Just gear that is producing them as fast as I can. Once I validate the Den Hartog HDPE conical (at the one year point the 60 gallons of beer is not too acetic) GAME ON! A few of those bad boys and the sours will be plentiful.

 

[TrickyDick]

I hear ya.

I'm working on the three plastic 15 gal conical glycol fermentation system now. Almost done. But that was so I could do lagers without messing up my ale schedule. Now I have 4 carboys of sours going with 6 more in the pipeline. It's silly these long to market beers. What's next? A 60 gal solera project? I'm running out of space! Plus my belt only has so many notches for expansion!


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[FredTheNuke]

My 60 gallon conical IS a solera project... LOL

 

[Beergnomes]

Just introduced Brett to my ss conical a few days ago. Not really worried about the clean up but may follow with a beer that won't be hurt by Brett as my next batch just in case. Have not done a true sour yet but have drunk more than my fair share and I do love a good sour. Hoping the fruited saison in there ages with sour notes. Still trying to figure out the bottling & priming end since I will be bottling after 3 weeks of intro of Brett & pear nectar.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Lol yea I have one bucket and one glass just for clean beers, the other 9 are all sour. I haven't started using my 15gal barrels for sour yet either, but I've only used them twice, one batch in one and first batch in the second. Still have to outfit and clean # 3&4. Just working out details on them before dedicating them to sours. Looking lie they'll do 12 with ease.

 

[TrickyDick]

Can you post up some pics of your setup??


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[TravisT]

I've used ecy01 and split it in two 6.5gl carboys, and the fermentation was not bad at all. 2-3. inches of headspace was all I needed. Two weeks later I put that 10gl in with 40gallons of wort in a 55gl barrel and again the krousen was not bad at all.

 

[TrickyDick]

I've used ecy01 and split it in two 6.5gl carboys, and the fermentation was not bad at all. 2-3. inches of headspace was all I needed. Two weeks later I put that 10gl in with 40gallons of wort in a 55gl barrel and again the krousen was not bad at all.

Funny. Every time I popped the lid on the conical, there was no significant krausen at all. Minimal blow off action. I checked gravity, and it's 1.011, which was 73% AE. Not sure how low this is gonna go. Been nearly 3 weeks. Of of purse I don't plan to bottle for a year or so, and still going to rack onto fruit in secondaries. 6/9 is next planned sour brew. Need to bottle up some stuff to make some fermentation room though.

TD


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[ChugachBrewing]

The only excessive blowoff I had coming from barrels was Lambic Blend and Roselare. Mind you, they're 50 gallon barrels so there was a lot of activity and still it was reasonable. Make sure you top off after the primary is subsiding.

Also, FYI, a solera system is one in which there are *multiple* barrels of multiple ages of beer/wine/spirits. http://winemakersacademy.com/solera-aging-system/