Primary Fermenting in a Corny Keg

[Pickngrin]

when i ferment in a corny,I take out the dip tube. and drop it back in to transfer. this way I dont have week old crud to clean out of it.

Excellent idea -- thank you!

 

[Sherpa FE]

OK you experts, how do you keep the krausen from coming out all around the lid of the keg?
If I cant get this under control, I wont have a choice but to use carboys, I really dont want to be cleaning a mess in the freezer evertime I brew some beer.

ARRGGHHH
Josh

 

[Pickngrin]

OK you experts, how do you keep the krausen from coming out all around the lid of the keg?
If I cant get this under control, I wont have a choice but to use carboys, I really dont want to be cleaning a mess in the freezer evertime I brew some beer.

ARRGGHHH
Josh

Fermcap-S drops

 

[WortMonger]

I say fermcap (though I haven't used it) and pressurized fermentation. The pressure is the only thing keeping my krausen level down in my keg. I had less than a cup come out of my spunding valve during my last ferment, and that was 15+ gallons in a 15.5 gallon keg. I could only imagine if I had done 5 gallons in a corny what would have come out. I really need to try some fermcap soon.

 

[Twofox]

Subscribed! Awesome thread.

I was toying with the idea of a plastic conical, but a friend that works for Mr. Beer mentioned that they use them alot and are problematic. The other option was corneys.

So if I have this right, I can do something like this:

1. Cool, dump into corny. Let settle for 1-2 hours, serve off the trub (1-2 qts)
2. When Primary finishes, put on about 30psi and serve off the yeast. (straight, uncut dip tube).
3. Add Isenglass (my favorite) and let sit for a week.
4. Serve off sediment, and transfer to serving keg.

Is that about right? Assuming I'm carbing with C02.

Another question too. I want to go to a spunding valve and natural carbing in the keg. Where would that fit in the process?

I'm thinking I need to do that before fining?

 

[Twofox]

Subscribed! Awesome thread.

I was toying with the idea of a plastic conical, but a friend that works for Mr. Beer mentioned that they use them alot and are problematic. The other option was corneys.

So if I have this right, I can do something like this:

1. Cool, dump into corny. Let settle for 1-2 hours, serve off the trub (1-2 qts)
2. When Primary finishes, put on about 30psi and serve off the yeast. (straight, uncut dip tube).
3. Add Isenglass (my favorite) and let sit for a week.
4. Serve off sediment, and transfer to serving keg.

Is that about right? Assuming I'm carbing with C02.

Another question too. I want to go to a spunding valve and natural carbing in the keg. Where would that fit in the process?

I'm thinking I need to do that before fining?

Anyone have any feedback on the above? Inquiring (read thirsty) minds want to know

 

[RegionalChaos]

There is a thread about fermenting under pressure in Sanke's. That thread talks about the usage of a Spunding valve to regulate the pressure. Other wise I think your steps sound fine. Although I bet you don't need to go all the way to 30 psi to server off the yeast.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Closed-system_pressurized_fermentation

 

[Twofox]

There is a thread about fermenting under pressure in Sanke's. That thread talks about the usage of a Spunding valve to regulate the pressure. Other wise I think your steps sound fine. Although I bet you don't need to go all the way to 30 psi to server off the yeast.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Closed-system_pressurized_fermentation

Thanks for the info :rockin:

So after fermenting, and let's say fining with Isenglass... would that be when I'd rack to serving keg and in THERE prime with sugar for carbing?

 

[lmnop]

Will it work to pump some PSI into the primary corny then turn the gas off, connect it to the serving keg, then vent the pressure in the server, and let it siphon itself? Or do I need to push it the whole time?

 

[RobBroad]

Hello,

Great thread!

I've been fermenting in Cornies ever since I dropped a carboy and watched a lovely looking porter flow down the drain in our wet room (luckily it wasn't in the kitchen, or I might not be here to post...), and think they're great!

No problems with attenuation, just make sure I pitch plenty of yeast, and I do give a little shake every now and then, more to do with poor seals and little air lock activity.

Dry hopping is a piece of cake as you can hang a muslin bag in from the nice big opening.

I haven't tried transferring under CO2, as I bottle everything, but this looks like the was to go.

I split 5 or 6 gallon batches between two cornies at the moment, but think I will go for 5 gallons in one and try to top crop (Chis Whites & Jamil Zainasheffs book suggests this is the best time to harvest), there was a simple design in the gadgets issue of Zymurgy, and this guy has a good idea for the evil glass:

http://www.aleiens.com/video/top-cropping-yeast-from-a

One thing which springs to mind is that it's probably really important where you take the blow off from? If you take it from the long dip tube (outlet?), then is there not a chance a siphon could be started with the yeast to start with and then the hard won beer, totally emptying the keg? Or, the pressure bulids up above the beer and then pushes it up through the dip tube, again starting a siphon, bit like transfering? I would think having the dip pipe adjustable for harvesting, and certainly above the level of the beer to ensure it can't disappear, unless pressure builds up for some reason is the way to go?

Cheers & sorry for such a long post!

Rob

 

[Sherpa FE]

Rob,
thats exactly what happened to mine, I hooked the blow off on the out side and it purged all 5 gallons out. Someone suggested to remove the dip tube and thats what I have been doing. I remove the dip tube and hook the blow off there. When I go to transfer I just put the poppet and dip tube back in the post, and transfer using co2.
I also go through a filter into the serving keg, makes it nice and easy to clean up.

 

[Jboggeye]

Hi all, just got through reading the entire thread, and will be trying this soon. I just bought two kegs for my wedding, and this is just adding to the excitement.

Are any of you simply pulling the yeast out to serve directly from primary? Or lager in this primary?

My biggest question, though, is how to oxygenate without foaming all over the place? (I kept looking for bigger fermenters because of foaming while oxygenating with 02/stone)

 

[mredge73]

There is very little foam with fermcap.
I put it in right before the boil; there is no foam up during the boil, no foam during oxygenating, and no foam at fermentation. I fill mine to about 1" from the top. No changes to the keg.

It will still blow off some so I use a second keg; hook the OUT from the primary to the IN of the sacrifice keg (little bit of sterilized water on the bottom of the sacrifice keg). Insert a QD in the sacrifice keg IN so the gas can escape and now I have a yeast collector. I use this clean yeast for my next batch.
Moving forward; I plan on replacing the sacrifice keg with a clear water filter housing and using a spunding valve to do a pressurized fermentation.

 

[Yambor44]

There is very little foam with fermcap.
I put it in right before the boil; there is no foam up during the boil, no foam during oxygenating, and no foam at fermentation. I fill mine to about 1" from the top. No changes to the keg.

It will still blow off some so I use a second keg; hook the OUT from the primary to the IN of the sacrifice keg (little bit of sterilized water on the bottom of the sacrifice keg). Insert a QD in the sacrifice keg IN so the gas can escape and now I have a yeast collector. I use this clean yeast for my next batch.
Moving forward; I plan on replacing the sacrifice keg with a clear water filter housing and using a spunding valve to do a pressurized fermentation.

My results were different with the gas drops. I did use baby gas drops and not fermacap, but my batches (3 now with the drops) had 2.5" kruesen in each 5 gallon carboy. I read on a fermacap thread that you need to add more drops once the beer is in the fermenter as it drops out in the boil kettle during chilling. Not sure if using a plate chiller or dumping 100% of your chilled wort into your primary would make a difference as to whether the drops would continue to work or not.

 

[mredge73]

2.5" isn't that bad; so in that case I would fill 3" from the top instead of 1" from the top.
If my objective was to not have any blowoff whatsoever, I would add a few extra drops in the fermenter and not fill it so high. But I like to collect a little blowoff, I just don't want it to get out of hand.

 

[forceten]

My main fermentation vessel is one of the Morebeer heated and cooled conical fermenters, but it's for 10 gallon batches. Starting with the accidental acquisition of significant post-boil wort with a Bitter I made, I began doing experimental beers in a 5 gal corny each brew day. The current batch is a Fig Brown Ale that is going ape in a corny - pushed out krausen yeast wort/beer since it started to ferment. Today I made the dumb mistake of taking the bubbler airlock cap off to try to clean it because the pressure was building up significantly (I thought I released it all -- HA!) and it spewed lots of yeast slurry all over the top of the corny, the walls, etc. I'm sure there's still more yeast in, but wow. I do think I overfilled the corny this time because I got a ridiculous amount of extract.

Then I went into the brewery proper and noticed that the 10gal Conical had some overflow too.

London Ale III from Wyeast. The packets were near bursting when pitched.

But my experience with the Krausen issue is that if it's happening the pressure is outward and nasties aren't getting in. I've been spraying with IP alcohol.

My first ferment was simply attaching a long hose to the IN port (air port) and into a bucket of water. This is how it's done in a production brewery. Worked great. Lately I've been using a cap with a blowoff airlock. Might go back to the hose, to be honest.

 

[Yambor44]

2.5" isn't that bad; so in that case I would fill 3" from the top instead of 1" from the top.
If my objective was to not have any blowoff whatsoever, I would add a few extra drops in the fermenter and not fill it so high. But I like to collect a little blowoff, I just don't want it to get out of hand.

Mredge,

Is this a purpose for the collected blowoff or do you just like getting some out of the way?

 

[mredge73]

I collect it in a second corny with ~ 1 quart of sterilized water at the bottom. This allows me to automatically "top crop" my yeast for my next batch (or storage). I am essentially collecting a small amount of yeast rich krausen and dissolving it in water. This makes washing easy because I don't have to deal with trub (just a few hop partials).

 

[cmoon]

Wanted to thank all you guys for this long running thread. Recently made the transition to brewing in corny kegs and absolutely love it. Saves time (pre-carbonating), space, and overall more control.

So far I've been doing 9 gallon batches and splitting it between two 5 gallon cornys, but am finding I have what looks like a LOT of headspace. Not using fermcap or anything. Just blowoff tubes attached to the gas stem. I may mess around with 9.5 or 4.75 gallon batches and see how much I can get away with. Guess it depends on how vigorous the fermentation is.

On my first batch I removed the blow off tubes after 1 week (once the vigorous fermentation appeared to have stopped), replaced the poppet valves and have been letting it naturally carbonate. I choose to vent it down to the levels I wanted it carbonated at, but I'm wondering if I should have just let the pressure keep rising up to 30 or so? Probably doesn't matter.


Is there a safe maximum amount of psi I need to worry about in the cornies? Is it a good idea to keep constantly checking the psi, or is this something you can walk away from and not worry about?

 

[mredge73]

I have pressure tested mine with my air compressor set at 110psi. I have heard that they are good up to 160psi but if they are used I couldn't be 100% sure.
Keep in mind that soda is carbonated in the range of 35-50psi; you are using a soda keg right?

30psi at 70F should net you 2.23 volumes of carbonation.
http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/ForceCarbonation.html
You should do some reading in this thread; it is long but informative:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/

Here is my new force carb system:

 

[cmoon]

Thanks! Seems like I shouldn't have vented mine down to 18 or so. Was leaving town for a couple days and just worried about the pressure building up to high! (sounds like it isn't much of a concern.)

 

[oakbarn]

We have made many batches using a corney keg as primary and secondary. We simply attach a gas out line and put in an old plastic water jug. We use a chest freezer as a fermentation chamber to control the temperature. You can find a lid online that has a hole for a standard airlock, but we have never had a problem with the method we use. We have not modified the kegs in any way and use them to serve in a different batch if needed. We have done this for 2 years almost every month with three kegs, and we had a problem one time with a dry hop bag that broke and we had difficulty getting the beer out. We finally siphoned it out. We have only done lagers. We "burp" the kegs to get rid of trub after the first week. We used to transfer to a secondary (a different corney keg) but no longer do that. We also have not dry hopped as we liked our Pivo better without that. We just use CO2 and a "trub" line (Black Beer Out with an open end) to dump the trub. We also do a trub dump just prior to transferring to the final keg. We use a black to black QDs to transfer between kegs. We also fill the destination keg with CO2.
Very easy and clean and you can put a filter in line if you want to filter. We try not to move the keg we are transferring from and our beer can be very clear with this method so we no longer filter.
You must clean the corney well after fermenting in it. Normally the top part of the keg is most in need of cleaning.

 

[oakbarn]

Although it looks like we transfer with an open top, we do not. We actually have the lid on and use the same gray gas blow off tube connected to the destination Gas side. We hook up the CO2 to the ferment keg and transfer to final keg using low psi. The white rags are "Dave Rags" which were soaked in Star San and put over the open top when we transferred the Wort to the fermenter. We put on the lids after oxygenation and pitching the yeast and put the "Dave Rag" over the top as a precaution as the lids may not be 100% air tight. We also do that with regular air locks and stoppers.

 

[Yambor44]

Great info Oakbarn.

 

[SlaterS]

What ID hose are you guys using to push beer from primary to secondary?

 

[JoeBronco]

Rob,
thats exactly what happened to mine, I hooked the blow off on the out side and it purged all 5 gallons out. Someone suggested to remove the dip tube and thats what I have been doing. I remove the dip tube and hook the blow off there. When I go to transfer I just put the poppet and dip tube back in the post, and transfer using co2.
I also go through a filter into the serving keg, makes it nice and easy to clean up.

Why not hook up the blow off to the CO2 port rather than the beer side?

 

[WortMonger]

Yep, hooking the blow off to the gas side means it is above the liquid level, not below it since the beverage out goes to the bottom.

 

[oakbarn]

We only use this process for lager yeasts that we are fermenting at 65 degrees and below. We do not use this for ale yeast. We have several pieces of unique equipment although it is not used exclusively for fermentation that we find very useful. That being said, you could use the same equipment that you use to ferment in a bottle or bucket for fermentation in a Cornelius Keg.
Equipment: (We use Ball Lock so Black is “Out” and Gray is “In “
Primary Keg : A regular Cornelius keg clean and sanitized.
Secondary Keg: A regular Cornelius keg clean and sanitized.
Serving Keg: A regular Cornelius keg clean and sanitized.
Trub Line: A Black connecter with a beer line that is open.
Keg Blow Off: A Gray connecter with a beer line that is open.
Transfer Hose: A Black to Black with a beer line between.
Dave Rag: A Paper Towel that is soaked in Star San the squeezed dry.
Waste Keg: A bad Cornelius keg with both posts and no lid. We got one that did not hold pressure at a bargain price. You really only need the “Out” post.
Star San Keg: A regular Cornelius keg filled with Star San: This is a regular keg that we keep around filled with sanitizer that we use all the time to clean lines including our taps when we do not have beer running.
CO2 Keg: A regular Cornelius keg clean and sanitized. This is just so can pump CO2 into the “Out” of the Secondary and Serving Kegs so as to fill the kegs with CO2 from the bottom. This is not a special keg but just one that is used for the transfer. If I do not have an extra, I just use the regular Gray in off the CO2 supply and use the pressure relief on the lid to fill with CO2.
Jug Airlock: A one gallon distilled water jug half filled with Star San.
1. Boil the Wort.
2. Cool the Wort with a Plate Chiller and fill the Primary Keg covered with a Dave Rag.
3. Leave at least 2 inches or more from the top (give some head space).
4. Oxygenate the Wort. We use welding oxygen.
5. Add the Yeast.
6. Put on the Lid.
7. Put the Primary Keg into our fermentation chamber. We use a chest freezer controlled by a Ranco controller.
8. Connect the Keg Blow Off to the “In” side of the Primary Keg. Put the tube into the Jug Airlock.
9. Ferment according to schedule and temp.
10. After 7 days at fermentation temp, we do a diacytel rest in the Primary Keg. (Up 5 degrees a day till 67 degrees, wait two days and then back down to fermentation temperature.)
11. Purge the Secondary Keg with CO2 with the lid on. We do this by connecting the CO2 supply at 5 psi to our CO2 keg. We then connect our transfer line to the CO2 Keg and the Secondary Keg. A Keg Blow Off is also connected to the “In” side of the Secondary Keg. Run CO2 for a minute or so. This purges all oxygen out of the Secondary prior to and beer being introduced to the Secondary Keg.
12. After the oxygen is purged, we disconnect the CO2 Keg and put the CO2 Gas Supply to the “in” of the Primary Keg. Try not to disturb the Primary Keg.
13. We connect a Trub line to the “Out” of the Primary with the open line in the Waste Keg. Crud will come out into the Waste Keg.
14. Once the beer runs clear, we disconnect the Trub Out.
15. Clean the Trub Out with the Star San Keg and the Waste Keg
16. Connect the Transfer Line from the Primary to the “Out” on the Waste Keg and fill the line with clear beer. Sometimes there is a small amount of trub again.
17. Disconnect from the Waste Keg and connect to the Secondary Keg. Flow the beer to the Secondary. When trub starts to flow again, disconnect from the secondary.
18. Clean the Transfer Hose with the Star San Keg and the Waste Keg.
19. Remove the Primary Keg from the fermentation chamber.
20. Place the Secondary Keg into the fermentation chamber with the Keg Blow Off and Jug Airlock.
21. Clean the Primary Keg. I fill with tap water and rinse twice. I then add one gallon of warm PBW (one ounce in 1 gallon water). Let Sit 30 minutes. Put on Lid and turn upside down for 30 minutes. Re right and fill with water to the brim. Leave overnight. I then use a nylon scubbie and a carboy brush to clean the inside. I look inside with a mirror on a stick. If I have any doubt I repeat the entire process. Rinse well.
22. I repeat steps 11 to 21 from the Secondary to the Serving Keg, except that we have a Transfer Hose with a Filter if we want to filter the beer but we have not done that in a while as we are getting clear beer with our process.

 

[Jboggeye]

Hi all, I just brewed my first in-keg beer on May 28th. (a little over a week)

II have a blowoff tube in the gas QD (no poppet removal) , and have been fermenting well for over a week. Now it's slowing down.

Can I take off the disconnect and let it carb- or will it hurt the yeast at this stage?
will this interfere with conditioning?
I'm planning on leaving it at 68 for another 2 weeks, so the 3rd week will be pressurized. (if you all say it's a good idea)


additional question:

How do you temp control? I have a ranco/chest freezer setup, but I don't know where to attach the probe. (I used to ferment in buckets and attach to side)

 

[adamtroxel]

Heya all

I am looking to move to the corny keg method for primary fermentation.

If I boil 6.0 gallon batches (7 gallon boil) - and split this between two 5 gallon corny kegs - and add 2 drops of fermcap per corny - I think Ill be in good shape for head room etc.

Can I just take a standard gas disconnect and fit a tube on for a blow off? Do I really need to remove the gas dip tube?

Not sure what to do with the liquid dip tube. I could cut it and avoid picking up trub/yeast as much as possible. Or I could leave it there and be able to harvest my yeast....

Then transfer both cornys into either the secondary for dry hopping or the serving corny.

am I missing anything?