Preventing sparkling wine

[NicoleBrewer]

I'm a beer brewer and have only attempted wine a small handful of times. Every time it turned into sparkling wine, and some corks even burst. I usually heat the must in order to kill off wild yeasts etc, and have never used camden tablets. Are those used to prevent carbonation?

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Sounds like you bottled too early. The wine is naturally petillant (mildly effervescent) due to dissolved CO2 from fermentation. You can let the wine sit & degas naturally over time; or you can manually degas prior to bottling.
Regards, GF.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Heat and wine don't go together, that's why we use campden tablets, to stun wild yeasts and other bacteria until the wine yeast gets going. Heat can set peptic stuff and change flavors of fruits.

Stirring will get rid of dissolved CO2, which is what is making your wine "sparkling" Vacuum racking or just vacuum will also do it. Extended time will work, but is not guaranteed, wine holds on to CO2 very strongly.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Are you fermenting to dry?
Potassium Metabisulfite (Meta) or campden tablets are added during or after the crush to kill or stun wild bacteria, are you trying to pasteurize the must to kill the wild yeast??

 

[NicoleBrewer]

I thought stirring the wine and exposing it to oxygen is bad? Also, I was told by a local homebrew store owner to heats to 180 for about an hour to avoid adding sulfites. In the past I'd wait for primary fermentation to finish, then I'd rack to secondary, and reach every few mo the up to a year. I know I wasn't bottling too early. So once it's fully fermented I stir for how long?

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Just some thoughts here:

In the past I'd wait for primary fermentation to finish

What do you consider finished fermenting? What is the SG when your wine is finished fermenting?
Is this wine made from fresh grapes, and if so (if it is a red wine) is can be going through a spontaneous MLF.

Wine kits usually have you stir the wine to degass, but remember, wine can be gently stirred while fermenting (we punch down the cap to not only to keep the skins and all the solids submerged, it also introduces a little oxygen to the yeast and keeps the yeast in suspension), the co2 protects the wine, once the wine has finished fermenting that co2 blanket is gone and the wine is much more susceptible to oxidation.
I do not recommend stirring the wine vigorously as it is too easy to introduce oxygen into your wine, time will degass for you, as you're aging your wine, the co2 will naturally escape from the wine.

As far as heating the wine to 180° for an hour... I've never heard of anyone doing this, but if he is allergic to sulfites, I guess this works, I have a friend who makes very good wine but cannot add sulfites due to his wife having a reaction to it, his wine is always spectacular, I would think that heating the must or wine to just under a boil for an hour would change the characteristics of the must or wine.

 

[menerdari]

Stirring to degas is safer if you add sulfites, the sulfites bond to the wine molecules and protect them from oxidation. I use a drill attached degasser but just today I started playing around with vacuum degassing. Potassium sorbate along with the camden (potassium metabisulfite) will inhibit yeast reproduction and help prevent any fermentation in the bottle.
Some will say not needed unless you are going to back sweeten but every kit I have ever made has you add both and most of the kits were not back sweetened so who am I to argue?

 

[bernardsmith]

It may be helpful to ferment wine must in a bucket loosely covered with a cloth or plastic lid rather than a carboy sealed with a bung and airlock. You really do want to aerate the must while the gravity is above about 1.005 and you want to remove CO2 - both of these actions can be done with stirring. Wine ain't beer and if brewers have near apoplexy at the idea of stirring their brew and introducing air into it in while the yeast is very active wine makers are rather more relaxed about such actions. The yeast benefit from an aerobic environment and from the removal of CO2(Fruits tend to be more acidic than grains and CO2 dissolved in the must increases the acidity which if too high can inhibit fermentation).

The wine may or may not be fermenting in the bottle (gravity can easily drop to about .994 or lower so if you bottle at 1.000 you still have a lot of sugar that can be converted to CO2 and alcohol, but even if the wine has no more sugar left when you bottle , if you bottle with so much CO2 absorbed in the liquid a) changes in air pressure can force the CO2 out of suspension and b) fine particles of fruit and yeast that continue to drop out of suspension can - I think - act as points of nucleation allowing the CO2 to collect at those points and so allow the CO2 to form into collections of gas large enough for it to drop out of suspension and so force the corks from the bottles as the pressure builds up.

 

[NicoleBrewer]

It may be helpful to ferment wine must in a bucket loosely covered with a cloth or plastic lid rather than a carboy sealed with a bung and airlock. You really do want to aerate the must while the gravity is above about 1.005 and you want to remove CO2 - both of these actions can be done with stirring. Wine ain't beer and if brewers have near apoplexy at the idea of stirring their brew and introducing air into it in while the yeast is very active wine makers are rather more relaxed about such actions. The yeast benefit from an aerobic environment and from the removal of CO2(Fruits tend to be more acidic than grains and CO2 dissolved in the must increases the acidity which if too high can inhibit fermentation).

The wine may or may not be fermenting in the bottle (gravity can easily drop to about .994 or lower so if you bottle at 1.000 you still have a lot of sugar that can be converted to CO2 and alcohol, but even if the wine has no more sugar left when you bottle , if you bottle with so much CO2 absorbed in the liquid a) changes in air pressure can force the CO2 out of suspension and b) fine particles of fruit and yeast that continue to drop out of suspension can - I think - act as points of nucleation allowing the CO2 to collect at those points and so allow the CO2 to form into collections of gas large enough for it to drop out of suspension and so force the corks from the bottles as the pressure builds up.

Great info thank you. So how would you go about preventing it from further fermenting after bottling if there are sugars left. I know a lot of people back sweeten, so there must be a way to stop the yeast from fermenting those sugars, right?

 

[menerdari]

Great info thank you. So how would you go about preventing it from further fermenting after bottling if there are sugars left. I know a lot of people back sweeten, so there must be a way to stop the yeast from fermenting those sugars, right?

Potassium Sorbate, it is more effective with a small amount of Metbisulfite (camden tablets, K-Meta ect...) That inhibits the reproduction of yeast and allows back sweetening without further fermentation.

 

[NicoleBrewer]

It may be helpful to ferment wine must in a bucket loosely covered with a cloth or plastic lid rather than a carboy sealed with a bung and airlock. You really do want to aerate the must while the gravity is above about 1.005 and you want to remove CO2 - both of these actions can be done with stirring. Wine ain't beer and if brewers have near apoplexy at the idea of stirring their brew and introducing air into it in while the yeast is very active wine makers are rather more relaxed about such actions. The yeast benefit from an aerobic environment and from the removal of CO2(Fruits tend to be more acidic than grains and CO2 dissolved in the must increases the acidity which if too high can inhibit fermentation).

The wine may or may not be fermenting in the bottle (gravity can easily drop to about .994 or lower so if you bottle at 1.000 you still have a lot of sugar that can be converted to CO2 and alcohol, but even if the wine has no more sugar left when you bottle , if you bottle with so much CO2 absorbed in the liquid a) changes in air pressure can force the CO2 out of suspension and b) fine particles of fruit and yeast that continue to drop out of suspension can - I think - act as points of nucleation allowing the CO2 to collect at those points and so allow the CO2 to form into collections of gas large enough for it to drop out of suspension and so force the corks from the bottles as the pressure builds up.

Great info thank you. So how would you go about preventing it from further fermenting after bottling if there are sugars left. I know a lot of people back sweeten, so there must be a way to stop the yeast from fermenting those sugars, right?

 

[menerdari]

Guess you didn't like my answer?

 

[NicoleBrewer]

It may be helpful to ferment wine must in a bucket loosely covered with a cloth or plastic lid rather than a carboy sealed with a bung and airlock. You really do want to aerate the must while the gravity is above about 1.005 and you want to remove CO2 - both of these actions can be done with stirring. Wine ain't beer and if brewers have near apoplexy at the idea of stirring their brew and introducing air into it in while the yeast is very active wine makers are rather more relaxed about such actions. The yeast benefit from an aerobic environment and from the removal of CO2(Fruits tend to be more acidic than grains and CO2 dissolved in the must increases the acidity which if too high can inhibit fermentation).

The wine may or may not be fermenting in the bottle (gravity can easily drop to about .994 or lower so if you bottle at 1.000 you still have a lot of sugar that can be converted to CO2 and alcohol, but even if the wine has no more sugar left when you bottle , if you bottle with so much CO2 absorbed in the liquid a) changes in air pressure can force the CO2 out of suspension and b) fine particles of fruit and yeast that continue to drop out of suspension can - I think - act as points of nucleation allowing the CO2 to collect at those points and so allow the CO2 to form into collections of gas large enough for it to drop out of suspension and so force the corks from the bottles as the pressure builds up.

Great info thank you. So how would you go about preventing it from further fermenting after bottling if there are sugars left. I know a lot of people back sweeten, so there must be a way to stop the yeast from fermenting those sugars, right?

 

[NicoleBrewer]

Great info thank you. So how would you go about preventing it from further fermenting after bottling if there are sugars left. I know a lot of people back sweeten, so there must be a way to stop the yeast from fermenting those sugars, right?

 

[NicoleBrewer]

Guess you didn't like my answer?

I didn't even see your response till now. I'm having issues with my phone. Keeps saying I can't connect to the server on here and has posted my response multiple times even though it would just shut down my app. Thanks for your response, everyone has given very helpful info! I have camden tablets from probably 10 or so years ago when I first bought brewing equipment. It's unopened, and has no expiration date. Do they go bad??

 

[NicoleBrewer]

Guess you didn't like my answer?

I didn't even see your response till now. I'm having issues with my phone. Keeps saying I can't connect to the server on here and has posted my response multiple times even though it would just shut down my app. Thanks for your response, everyone has given very helpful info! I have camden tablets from probably 10 or so years ago when I first bought brewing equipment. It's unopened, and has no expiration date. Do they go bad??

 

[NicoleBrewer]

Guess you didn't like my answer?

I didn't even see your response till now. I'm having issues with my phone. Keeps saying I can't connect to the server on here and has posted my response multiple times even though it would just shut down my app. Thanks for your response, everyone has given very helpful info! I have camden tablets from probably 10 or so years ago when I first bought brewing equipment. It's unopened, and has no expiration date. Do they go bad??

 

[NicoleBrewer]

Guess you didn't like my answer?

I didn't even see your response till now. I'm having issues with my phone. Keeps saying I can't connect to the server on here and has posted my response multiple times even though it would just shut down my app. Thanks for your response, everyone has given very helpful info! I have camden tablets from probably 10 or so years ago when I first bought brewing equipment. It's unopened, and has no expiration date. Do they go bad??

 

[Yooper]

I didn't even see your response till now. I'm having issues with my phone. Keeps saying I can't connect to the server on here and has posted my response multiple times even though it would just shut down my app. Thanks for your response, everyone has given very helpful info! I have camden tablets from probably 10 or so years ago when I first bought brewing equipment. It's unopened, and has no expiration date. Do they go bad??

Yes, they go bad. Well not "go bad", but lose effectiveness.

Once the wine is totally clear, and no longer dropping ANY lees at all after at least 60 days in a new carboy, it's ready to be stabilized.

Using 1/2 teaspoon of sorbate per gallon of wine, and 1 crushed campden tablet per gallon, both dissolved in a little water, put that in the new vessel and rack the wine into that. Let it sit about 3 days (minimum). If it remains clear, and no new lees fall, you can sweeten the wine to taste. Once the wine is sweetened to your satisfaction, let it sit a few days to ensure that no new fermentation starts. If it remains clear, and no signs of fermentation have started, you can proceed with bottling.

It's really easy, but time is important here. The wine must be finished fermenting, and totally clear. That's because of what sorbate actually does. The way it works is that sorbate does not kill yeast, but it prevents yeast reproduction.

So, in an active fermentation when there are hundreds and hundreds of billions of active yeast, it won't do a thing. But once fermentation stops, and the wine clears, and the wine is racked off of the fallen yeast, it can be added to prevent yeast reproducing, thereby not allowing fermentation to begin again (usually). Sorbate works better in the presence of sulfite (campden), so they are generally added together.

However, it will NOT stop an active fermentation and will not work in a wine that is not clear and done fermenting. That's why it's important that the wine is clear, no longer dropping any lees at all, and ready to stabilize before sweetening and bottling.