Prepping for my 1st AG batch. HELP!

[jcom87]

Hey everyone! This is my first post on this forum, and likewise my first AG batch is coming closer (just waiting for a few essential pieces of equipment).
My plan is to do the DIY 10gal Rubbermaid MLT. Other than that, my equipment is a 5gal brew kettle, bucket primary, carboy secondary.
I have asked friends who do AG, as well as done my research on this forum, and what I found is that many people brew AG in many different ways. Here's what I am thinking for my mash method.
-Grains in the MLT
-Heat strike water and add on top (all at once? little at a time?)
-Give a stir and mash for time according to recipe
-Single batch sparge

Here's where I need some help. Brewing in an apartment means that I don't have the space or ability to use a propane burner, so I'm limited to stovetop. After my mash, what is the best way to get to my boil? Do I rack into the kettle, then start my heat... or will I get a lesser tasting product than if I were to rack into an already heated brew kettle?

Again, I'm new... so if there is anything here I am doing wrong, or if you have any suggestions on how I could simplify and/or improve my quality, let's hear it! Don't be shy! Thanks everyone.

On a side note, would I be more suited to do a smaller 2.5-3gal AG, or a 5gal partial mash? Thanks again.

 

[Gavin C]

Your batch size in this instance is limited to your pot. Your entire preboil volume will be in the pot. This is 5 gallon max with zero room for thermal expansion or boil. Boiling 4 gallons preboil might be doable. A 60 minute boil may bring this down to 3 ish gallons.

I would target 2.75 gallons to the FV to allow 0.25 gallons lost to FV trub giving you a 2.5 gallon batch of beer

Mashing in a cooler. Collect your strike water in the cooler. Grains are added to the water mixing thoroughly as you go to ensure optimal wetting of the grains. Don't add water to the grains. Dough balls may form.

I do AG brewing indoors but utilize a very different approach.

 

[jcom87]

Your batch size in this instance is limited to your pot. Your entire preboil volume will be in the pot. This is 5 gallon max with zero room for thermal expansion or boil. Boiling 4 gallons preboil might be doable. A 60 minute boil may bring this down to 3 ish gallons.

I would target 2.75 gallons to the FV to allow 0.25 gallons lost to FV trub giving you a 2.5 gallon batch of beer

Mashing in a cooler. Collect your strike water in the cooler. Grains are added to the water mixing thoroughly as you go to ensure optimal wetting of the grains. Don't add water to the grains. Dough balls may form.

I do AG brewing indoors but utilize a very different approach.

I'm happy to have beersmith on my side when it comes to strike water volume, mash volume vs. boil volume, etc. Also, thanks for the advice on the mash. I had heard to add the water to the grains and it seemed a bit suspect to me to begin with.
If you have another method you would suggest trying I'm all ears!

 

[relicdog]

Try BIAB

 

[Gavin C]

Yes. I'm all in favor of BIAB. The link to my methods is below

 

[jcom87]

Try BIAB

BIAB seems like a good option for limited space, but my brain has a weird way of telling me it's a "cutting corners" or "cheating" way to brew. Call me crazy, but that's what I've always thought (never tried it though). I feel the same way about extract brewing. There's a certain amount of pride it seems to brew beer from raw materials.
Also, do you get everything you want out of the grains when you do BIAB?

 

[kh54s10]

Your set up is pretty good but with only a 5 gallon boil kettle you will be limited on the volume you can make. I do BIAB in a 5 gallon kettle and can only do a 3 gallon batch.

I heat my strike water, add it to a preheated mash tun then add the grains. Stir like crazy, seal it up and wait for 60 minutes. Sometimes I open and stir midway.

I do a 2 step batch sparge. First step is half or more of the remainder after the mash. Then I measure the volume collected and calculate what is needed for the second sparge. I do this so I don't end up leaving a lot of wort in the tun or not have enough.

I drain to the boil kettle then start the heat. I have tried starting the heat while draining the sparge but it gets too hectic.

On thing I would not do is rack wort into a hot pot. It might scorch the initial addition of wort.

Go for it, take notes and see what works and what doesn't. I looked at several Youtube videos on batch sparge brewing, Took ideas from all and had a pretty good idea of what to do before I started. I have had great success and a lot of fun.

 

[jcom87]

Your set up is pretty good but with only a 5 gallon boil kettle you will be limited on the volume you can make. I do BIAB in a 5 gallon kettle and can only do a 3 gallon batch.

I heat my strike water, add it to a preheated mash tun then add the grains. Stir like crazy, seal it up and wait for 60 minutes. Sometimes I open and stir midway.

I do a 2 step batch sparge. First step is half or more of the remainder after the mash. Then I measure the volume collected and calculate what is needed for the second sparge. I do this so I don't end up leaving a lot of wort in the tun or not have enough.

I drain to the boil kettle then start the heat. I have tried starting the heat while draining the sparge but it gets too hectic.

On thing I would not do is rack wort into a hot pot. It might scorch the initial addition of wort.

Go for it, take notes and see what works and what doesn't. I looked at several Youtube videos on batch sparge brewing, Took ideas from all and had a pretty good idea of what to do before I started. I have had great success and a lot of fun.

Yes, youtube has been my friend for AG methods!
One question on mashing... do you keep heated and cooled water on standby in case your mash temp changes too much? And if you add more do you take that away from your total sparge water?

 

[madscientist451]

Everyone has their own methods, I like to keep things simple and try to focus on the way the beer comes out. Since you have a 10 gallon cooler and a 5 gallon pot, you can do a no sparge mash. Your whole mash volume is added at one time, no separate mash is needed. Let it sit for an hour at the temperature indicated in your recipe, then drain the cooler into your pot and your ready to boil.
One thing to consider is the quality of your water. Does it taste good? Any off tastes or smells? I have a good well and usually mix it 50/50 with distilled. I haven't gotten around to a water test yet, so I'm not adding anything to my water. If your water has iron or a sulfur smell, you need to buy water for brewing or get a reverse osmosis system.

 

[Gavin C]

BIAB seems like a good option for limited space, but my brain has a weird way of telling me it's a "cutting corners" or "cheating" way to brew. Call me crazy, but that's what I've always thought (never tried it though). I feel the same way about extract brewing. There's a certain amount of pride it seems to brew beer from raw materials.
Also, do you get everything you want out of the grains when you do BIAB?

Not really sure where the corners are being cut with BIAB. If it makes you happier to utilize three vessels then go for it. Careful with YouTube vids. There are a lot of videos of inefficient methods mixed in with the good ones.

 

[jcom87]

Not really sure where the corners are being cut with BIAB. If it makes you happier to utilize three vessels then go for it. Careful with YouTube vids. There are a lot of videos of inefficient methods mixed in with the good ones.

I know exactly what you mean. I've seen some videos that are just humorous. I try not to take it as biblical, but it's good to see what others are doing. That's why I enjoy browsing through this forum.
And the biggest thing about the BIAB to me, as I said before, is that I feel like you're losing some of the goodness the grains have to offer in the middle of the bag.
I ran into that a few times with extract brewing until I started sparging the grains. Maybe I'll try BIAB sometime and see how it goes. It can't hurt!

 

[Gavin C]

t I feel like you're losing some of the goodness the grains have to offer in the middle of the bag.

I don't think you have a realistic handle of what BIAB entails. Mash efficiencies in excess of 85% are readily obtainable. There is no grain in the "middle"of the bag that are not adequately mashed with correct technique. The only difference is that with BIAB the lauter is a little different. The bag serves as a massive unblockable manifold

BIAB. Grains are removed from wort
Mash tun. Wort is removed from grain

 

[Singletrack]

BIABers always looking for disciples. There could be anything trapped in the middle of that bag of grain.
Goodness? Sure.
Tradition? No doubt.
Dignity? Check.
Porcupine? Probably.
Old shoes? Could be.
Meat loaf? It's happened.

Stick with something that has at least 3 vessels.

 

[bu_gee]

Also, do you get everything you want out of the grains when you do BIAB?

What are you looking for? I get maltose, maltodextrin, flavor, and color using BIAB. You also get a workout hauling around a 30lb bag of hot, sopping grains.

It isn't without perils, but it works pretty effectively.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

BIAB seems like a good option for limited space, but my brain has a weird way of telling me it's a "cutting corners" or "cheating" way to brew. Call me crazy, but that's what I've always thought (never tried it though). I feel the same way about extract brewing. There's a certain amount of pride it seems to brew beer from raw materials.
Also, do you get everything you want out of the grains when you do BIAB?

Trying not to sound doushy but you don't have a clue what your talking about regarding BIAB.Im drinking the best beer Ive ever had through a BIAB setup.The only thing your cutting corners on is expence and cleanup.Do a little more research

 

[cease]

I do 3 gallon batches on the stove top with an 8 gallon kettle BIAB and my 5 + gallon batches using a cooler and a 15 gallon pot. Both beers come out the same but I do have to adjust mash ph a bit more with the BIAB batches. Not sure why, ph buffering perhaps? Either way, both ways have their merit and produce good beer.

 

[jcom87]

Trying not to sound doushy but you don't have a clue what your talking about regarding BIAB.Im drinking the best beer Ive ever had through a BIAB setup.The only thing your cutting corners on is expence and cleanup.Do a little more research

Wow, I certainly have struck a nerve with the BIAB community. Allow me to clear up my comments about BIAB. No, I really don't know what I'm talking about (which is pretty much the point of this thread). I have done research on every method I can think of because I wanted to be educated before I begin AG.
I had had a conversation with a good friend and local home brewer about BIAB vs., well, anything else. He told me he had tried it and didn't get as good of a result. Could he have screwed something up in the process or the recipe, sure, but I listened to what he said.
I will continue to do more research, but this thread was intended to obtain more info before I started, as well as correct anything I may have been inaccurate with. Frankly, as long as I have a decent product and have fun doing it, I have done what I set out to do.

 

[joshesmusica]

Wow, I certainly have struck a nerve with the BIAB community. Allow me to clear up my comments about BIAB. No, I really don't know what I'm talking about (which is pretty much the point of this thread). I have done research on every method I can think of because I wanted to be educated before I begin AG.
I had had a conversation with a good friend and local home brewer about BIAB vs., well, anything else. He told me he had tried it and didn't get as good of a result. Could he have screwed something up in the process or the recipe, sure, but I listened to what he said.
I will continue to do more research, but this thread was intended to obtain more info before I started, as well as correct anything I may have been inaccurate with. Frankly, as long as I have a decent product and have fun doing it, I have done what I set out to do.

To get down to the essentials, BIAB is not cheating. Anybody who tells you that is lying. It's still all-grain. There are pluses and minuses to every method.

BUT with your setup, it sounds like the best method, isn't actually BIAB, unless you're doing that out of your mash tun. My reasoning behind that is all of the space you'll lose in the kettle to the grains (aka all of the space that could've been wort). Since you have such a big MT, and since you have the MT, I would consider do the full-volume mash as mentioned above. It will save you some time since you don't have to sparge. Since you have beersmith, then you should be able to select full-volume, no sparge. if not i would think your best bet would be to select the BIAB mash profile, even though you're using your MT. Aim for about 4 gallons in your pot, that will likely give you around 3 gallons in your FV assuming about a 60 minute boil. although the best thing to do would be to check your boil off rates with 4 gallons of water in your pot.

as far as heating your pot, you could certainly heat it some, but as stated you don't want to scorch the first amount of wort that hits the pot. even if you have it the same temp as your mash temp, then you know you won't be losing any heat at the beginning at least. it's still likely gonna take quite a bit of time to get that volume to a good boil on a stove top (trust me, i BIAB on my stove top).

 

[McKnuckle]

Regarding your friend who tried BIAB with inferior results to his prior methods; I assure you that others among us have had the exact opposite experience, and have migrated from multi-vessel to BIAB.

Multi-vessel brewing naturally propagated into a once nascent homebrewing community from its roots in traditional large-scale brewing. As such, over decades it became standard practice. But that doesn't make it the only legitimate all-grain brewing technique, nor does it make any other all-grain technique "cheating." I think you'll find that AG brewing is wrought with challenges, and that getting sugar out of your grain is actually the least of your worries.

If you simply think about what we're doing in the mash, strip away all the B.S., it's adding water to crushed grain and soaking it at a particular temperature in order to extract sugar. Then we have to separate the sugar-infused liquid from the solids.

That last sentence is exactly the sum of everything that the braid, the false bottom, or the bag is allowing you to do. No more, no less. As such, the bag is no more or no less than another way to keep the solids and iiquids separate. The rest of the procedure - establishing and maintaining temperature, and sugar extraction, is entirely up to you, the brewer, and your knowledge/skill.

 

[Gavin C]

Wow, I certainly have struck a nerve with the BIAB community. Allow me to clear up my comments about BIAB. No, I really don't know what I'm talking about (which is pretty much the point of this thread). I have done research on every method I can think of because I wanted to be educated before I begin AG.
I had had a conversation with a good friend and local home brewer about BIAB vs., well, anything else. He told me he had tried it and didn't get as good of a result. Could he have screwed something up in the process or the recipe, sure, but I listened to what he said.
I will continue to do more research, but this thread was intended to obtain more info before I started, as well as correct anything I may have been inaccurate with. Frankly, as long as I have a decent product and have fun doing it, I have done what I set out to do.

No worries mate. No nerves struck here. I just wanted to try to dispel some perhaps ill-informed (I hope that is not an unfair assessment), notions pertaining to BIAB. I agree with @Joshesmusica in that I think you may have better volumetric capacity using a cooler mash tun that you are describing and pot rather than BIAB given the 5 gallon pot size.

I think your thoughtful approach is to be commended. I must admit I was very ill-informed during my first foray into brewing. Best of luck with your own brewing adventure. I'm sure, like most you will find an n-vessel setup that suits your needs and bring you great enjoyment. I wish you every success in your endeavors.

 

[bu_gee]

There will always be confirmation bias because it is illogical that somebody would pay $300 for a mashing rig when you can get similar results from a $10 bag.

It is like when you pour two glasses of wine from the same bottle and tell the person one costs 5x more than the other, they think the expensive one tastes better.