Premier malt extract

[Dave R]

Yeah Pogo. I was going to tell you to try the WDG in Cullman since those are the Mom and Pop stores my company delivers to. I personally don't deliver to those two stores, but have once or twice.

 

[Pogo]

Hey Dave,

You seem to be the resident expert on using these Premier malt kits.

Have you, or anyone, tried using two of these 2.2 pound cans together for one 5 gallon batch?

The reading that I've been doing on brewing with extract kits seems to lean toward the addition of refined sugar being the cause of off flavors.

I've just started my second batch, and am using 2 pounds of Extra Light DME instead of cane/beet or corn sugar, at $5.99 per pound, plus tax.

I think that my next 5 or 6 gallon batch is going to be a 'two cans of Premier extract batch', and no sugar, if this DME batch is good!

Pogo

 

[Dave R]

I tried it one time with 2 cans and no sugar, but I didn't have a hydrometer at the time and couldn't tell what the OG or FG was. It was good but I didn't like it as well as one can and 7 cups sugar. It definitely wasn't worth the expense of the extra can, IMO.
But you should try it yourself as tastes vary and keep experimenting. I'm still experimenting with the stuff after 2 years of using it.

Some stores have quit selling it, I noticed. I hope that's not going to be a trend.

I'm contemplating going to All-Grain soon anyway, so I guess it won't matter.

I mainly started out using Premier because I could run down to the store a quarter mile away and buy it and it was cheap. I was only going to use it until I got my routine down pat and my sanitation technique, etc. Then I was having so much fun experimenting that I just kept using it.
Time to move on now, though, I'm thinking.

 

[fishnfever]

I tried it one time with 2 cans and no sugar, but I didn't have a hydrometer at the time and couldn't tell what the OG or FG was. It was good but I didn't like it as well as one can and 7 cups sugar. It definitely wasn't worth the expense of the extra can, IMO.
But you should try it yourself as tastes vary and keep experimenting. I'm still experimenting with the stuff after 2 years of using it.

Some stores have quit selling it, I noticed. I hope that's not going to be a trend.

I'm contemplating going to All-Grain soon anyway, so I guess it won't matter.

I mainly started out using Premier because I could run down to the store a quarter mile away and buy it and it was cheap. I was only going to use it until I got my routine down pat and my sanitation technique, etc. Then I was having so much fun experimenting that I just kept using it.
Time to move on now, though, I'm thinking.

I did the same exact thing. Near the end of the summer I was getting tired of it :cross: Then the local market stopped carrying it and at first I was up set but realized it was fun to brew it and cheap but after making some good brews the premier was no longer that great I have three cans left and a batch in a keg and I almost can't wait until its gone.

Some day maybe I will come across it agian and YES I will have to brew it once just for old times :rockin:

 

[Pogo]

Well...if stores are no longer stocking it, then it has to mean that the demand for it is gone.

Fortunately for me, both of the Piggly Wiggly stores, and both of the Warehouse Discount Groceries around here still carry it, plus an independent grocer about 5 miles away. I'm sure that being in a dry county is the main reason for this.

Anyway, my OG using one can of Premier Malt Extract, no sugar, and 2 pounds of Extra Light DME in a 5 gallon primary, was 1.031.

If it ferments down to 1.015 it will yeild approximately 4% ABV...which is all I can ask for!

I'll give an update when something worth sharing happens.

Pogo

 

[mlanoue]

I can't find any of this stuff up here in Illinois. I'd love to try a prohibition-style brew (minus the sloppiness and bread yeast).

Has anybody seen any in the Great Lakes area? I know they're based out of Michigan. Anybody seen any there?

 

[Pogo]

Premier has a 1-800 number...I can't seem to find it right now...but you can Google for it and/or email them for sources near you.

Try asking your grocer to order you some, even if it's on his supply list, they might not be stocking it if there is no demand.

Pogo

 

[Corkster]

My older Brother is pretty into homebrewing and has recommended this very project to me to try as a first foray into homebrewing.

I will look around in the next couple days and hope to find the stuff locally.

He mentioned though that using table sugar seemed to give the final product a "cidery" taste so I was considering getting a second can as well...

 

[GroosBrewz]

My older Brother is pretty into homebrewing and has recommended this very project to me to try as a first foray into homebrewing.

I will look around in the next couple days and hope to find the stuff locally.

He mentioned though that using table sugar seemed to give the final product a "cidery" taste so I was considering getting a second can as well...

Yo Corkster- Chris here....
So you are planning on using two cans, but following the recipe for one can? In essence, using your 2nd can as a "sugar" source? If so, then you are going to double the hop flavor, so just remember that. I believe there was a post somehwere in this forum about a guy who did it and said that wasnt very good.. I would still recommed trying one can (or two if you want-but be sure to double the ingredients in the given recipe) and using DME in place of the sugar.. I think it wil give you a better brew......:rockin:

 

[Pogo]

The only OTHER ingredients called for with these kits is 1) sugar, 2) water, and 3) yeast!

True, Dave R, tried a batch without the sugar, and doubling the LME, and didn't like it, but I'm gonna have to try it and see for myself.

These kits are so cheap that I feel the need to do some major experimenting and playing around before moving on to bigger and better projects.

If y'all lived in a dry county, surrounded by dry counties, you would probably feel more like I do about wanting to apply some extra effort, and attempt to massage these kits for optimum results!

Pogo

 

[GroosBrewz]

The only OTHER ingredients called for with these kits is 1) sugar, 2) water, and 3) yeast!

True, Dave R, tried a batch without the sugar, and doubling the LME, and didn't like it, but I'm gonna have to try it and see for myself.

These kits are so cheap that I feel the need to do some major experimenting and playing around before moving on to bigger and better projects.

If y'all lived in a dry county, surrounded by dry counties, you would probably feel more like I do about wanting to apply some extra effort, and attempt to massage these kits for optimum results!

Pogo

Who is saying that you can't play around with them or massage them for optimum results? I think you got the whole tone of that post incorrect... I agree, play around with it and try it out! I know I did.. That post was simply a message to my brother (who lives in another town- I guess I should have clarified that) about my own personal experiences with premier.. But by all means, experiment.. Everyones tastes are different.. Good luck and happy brewing

 

[Pogo]

Hey bullrider -

No harm...no foul!

I'm sorry if my response seemed testy, I didn't mean it to be!

I realized that you were replying to Corker, who was indicating that he saw merit in substituting a second can of liquid extract for the sugar in the recipe, as did I.

And, your advice was spot on!

I was just thinking out loud I guess!

Pogo

 

[GroosBrewz]

Hey bullrider -

No harm...no foul!

I'm sorry if my response seemed testy, I didn't mean it to be!

I realized that you were replying to Corker, who was indicating that he saw merit in substituting a second can of liquid extract for the sugar in the recipe, as did I.

And, your advice was spot on!

I was just thinking out loud I guess!

Pogo

Cool.. Be sure to post your results!!

 

[Corkster]

Yo Corkster- Chris here....
So you are planning on using two cans, but following the recipe for one can? In essence, using your 2nd can as a "sugar" source? If so, then you are going to double the hop flavor, so just remember that. I believe there was a post somehwere in this forum about a guy who did it and said that wasnt very good.. I would still recommed trying one can (or two if you want-but be sure to double the ingredients in the given recipe) and using DME in place of the sugar.. I think it wil give you a better brew......:rockin:

I was hoping they might have a can of un-hopped extract. Alas, they did not.

So then I was gonna go with the DME, but my only local HB source is an Ace Hardware and their DME, while probably not overpriced, did seem a bit spendy for a starter run of what is supposed to be cheap beer anyway.

My buddy at work is gonna start a batch of Premier at the same time as I do and he's gonna use the DME while I'm gonna use table sugar, then we'll be able to compare and see the difference.

 

[GroosBrewz]

I was hoping they might have a can of un-hopped extract. Alas, they did not.

So then I was gonna go with the DME, but my only local HB source is an Ace Hardware and their DME, while probably not overpriced, did seem a bit spendy for a starter run of what is supposed to be cheap beer anyway.

My buddy at work is gonna start a batch of Premier at the same time as I do and he's gonna use the DME while I'm gonna use table sugar, then we'll be able to compare and see the difference.

So you got one can of premier? I will buy you the DME when I get in town tomorrow (Saturday).. Dont use the table sugar!

 

[Corkster]

Ok, all has gone quite well thus far. Used two LBs of DME instead of table sugar... fermentation went quite well but all airlock activity stopped rather abruptly... 4 days total... I'm not all that worried about that since Joy of Homebrewing states that 3 day complete fermentations are not uncommon.

I took a hydrometer reading yesterday and got a 1.011, took one today and got 1.012 that seemed a bit odd...shouldn't the # be getting lower rather than higher? Also the beer was a few degrees warmer when I checked it today (and got the higher number) than it was yesterday.... Warmer temps should result in a lower reading if I understand hydrometer science at all.... but regardless, I'll keep checking until I get the same reading a few days in a row then.... Bottling!!

Right now the beer tastes a bit fruity and rather bitter..... I can't wait to see what happens to the flavor after proper bottle conditioning!

 

[mlanoue]

What's the hop flavor like with these Premier kits? Is it just bitter or is there actual flavor?

 

[GroosBrewz]

What's the hop flavor like with these Premier kits? Is it just bitter or is there actual flavor?

there is some flavor there, but there is no aroma.. Not bitter after bottle conditioning.

 

[Pogo]

Well...I'm sitting here amazed!

This batch of Premier Malt Extract beer with two pounds of Extra Light DME is fantastic!

I'm truly not a REAL beer person, but this stuff is worth doing!

I'm going to have to develop a beer vocabulary, just to be able to properly describe all of the tastes involved here.

It has plenty of aroma, taste, feel...this is good stuff.

This batch is eighteen days old today, pitched on 01/21/09, with an OG of 1.031.

Today the SG is 1.012. I must of mis-read the potential alcohol scale earlier. I was thinking that a fermentation down to 1.015 would yeild an ABV of about 4%, but I was wrong.

Fermenting from 1.031 down to 1.012 gives me an ABV of only 2.489%. But, the taste is wonderful!

I could find no cidery after taste. I'm thinking that this batch is going to get even better as it conditions on out.

BTW - this kit came with a packet of Lager yeast, I used it, and it was viable. Thankfully, I rigged a blow-off tube into a bucket of water, because it pumped out plenty of foam even with temps in the fifties.

I'm thinking that i need to rig a refridgerator to ferment with Lager yeasts year around. I'm definitely going to do another batch onto this yeast cake, and use another carboy to continue tweeking these kit recipes.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how I can boost the ABV, without sugar, at this stage in the process?

Pogo

 

[GroosBrewz]

Well...I'm sitting here amazed!

This batch of Premier Malt Extract beer with two pounds of Extra Light DME is fantastic!

I'm truly not a REAL beer person, but this stuff is worth doing!

I'm going to have to develop a beer vocabulary, just to be able to properly describe all of the tastes involved here.

It has plenty of aroma, taste, feel...this is good stuff.

This batch is eighteen days old today, pitched on 01/21/09, with an OG of 1.031.

Today the SG is 1.012. I must of mis-read the potential alcohol scale earlier. I was thinking that a fermentation down to 1.015 would yeild an ABV of about 4%, but I was wrong.

Fermenting from 1.031 down to 1.012 gives me an ABV of only 2.489%. But, the taste is wonderful!

I could find no cidery after taste. I'm thinking that this batch is going to get even better as it conditions on out.

BTW - this kit came with a packet of Lager yeast, I used it, and it was viable. Thankfully, I rigged a blow-off tube into a bucket of water, because it pumped out plenty of foam even with temps in the fifties.

I'm thinking that i need to rig a refridgerator to ferment with Lager yeasts year around. I'm definitely going to do another batch onto this yeast cake, and use another carboy to continue tweeking these kit recipes.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how I can boost the ABV, without sugar, at this stage in the process?

Pogo

Hey Pogo!
I am glad your batch came out well!! Congrats. My brother and I made a batch of this last weekend.. He should probably be bottling today.. You said yours came with a packet of Lager yeast?? Out in Washington, ours comes with Danstar Windsor Ale Yeast... Although we ended up using SafeAle 04, I think it was the 04) because we rehydrated our yeast too soon and had some sanitation issues...

 

[GroosBrewz]

Anyway, my OG using one can of Premier Malt Extract, no sugar, and 2 pounds of Extra Light DME in a 5 gallon primary, was 1.031.

If it ferments down to 1.015 it will yeild approximately 4% ABV...which is all I can ask for!

.

Pogo

Our batch came in at 1.032, if I remember correctly.. So hopefully my brothers will ferment down to about the same ABV.... I'll have to have him send me one when it's bottled.. You hear that corkster??? Send me a bottle if it's good!

 

[GroosBrewz]

Ok, all has gone quite well thus far. Used two LBs of DME instead of table sugar... fermentation went quite well but all airlock activity stopped rather abruptly... 4 days total... I'm not all that worried about that since Joy of Homebrewing states that 3 day complete fermentations are not uncommon.

I took a hydrometer reading yesterday and got a 1.011, took one today and got 1.012 that seemed a bit odd...shouldn't the # be getting lower rather than higher? Also the beer was a few degrees warmer when I checked it today (and got the higher number) than it was yesterday.... Warmer temps should result in a lower reading if I understand hydrometer science at all.... but regardless, I'll keep checking until I get the same reading a few days in a row then.... Bottling!!

Right now the beer tastes a bit fruity and rather bitter..... I can't wait to see what happens to the flavor after proper bottle conditioning!

did you read the documentation that came with that hydrometer I got you? It will give you a temperature correction.. If not Beermsith has one built in as well...

 

[Pogo]

Hey bullrider -

Thanks, a lot!

I've been somewhat tied up for most of the last couple of weeks. I see that Corkster has gone on ahead an bottled after the first week, when he had his FG.

I'm going to let mine bulk condition in the primary until week 3, Tuesday, or maybe even week 4, since I still have a lot going on now. Patience should be rewarded anyway, right!

I've just been playing around with that homebrew recipe calculator 'Beer Calculus' from a link I found in the Beginners Forum. It'll be interesting to see how well this thing works, as I begin tweeking this recipe.

I'd been thinking about adding a pound of that dreaded sugar to this recipe, to get the ABV up a point or two, but since most of the other LME kits like Alexander's, John Bull, Munton's, Cooper's, etc., contain from 6 to 9 pounds of LME in a kit that still only makes a 5-gallon batch...I'm starting to think why not just use 2, 3, or even 4 of the 2.2 pound kits of PME for a 5-gallon batch, instead?

Surely there are nuances that will differ, but I guess what I'm wanting to figure out is, "Is the SG of a pound of one LME, equal to the SG of a pound of another LME...or not?"

Surely, doing full multiples of the LME in a recipe would boost the OG, huh?

Maybe that 'Beer Calculus' site will shed a little light on how much of what to change.

BTW - Hopefully, you'll get a taste of this recipe before it's gone, or gets modified into another animal entirely.

Pogo

 

[Corkster]

Hey Pogo!
Although we ended up using SafeAle 04, I think it was the 04) because we rehydrated our yeast too soon and had some sanitation issues...

Hey Bullrider... we used SafeAle 05 in ours.

 

[Corkster]

Our batch came in at 1.032, if I remember correctly.. So hopefully my brothers will ferment down to about the same ABV.... I'll have to have him send me one when it's bottled.. You hear that corkster??? Send me a bottle if it's good!

We did get an OG of 1.032, however since we did not have a thermometer handy, we have no idea what the temp was when we took that reading... I'd speculate that it was around 90 degrees or so though... in which case I'd need to add 5 to that reading giving an OG of 1.037 (roughly) my final reading is 1.009

doing the OG - FG x 105 formula gives me an appx ABV of 2.94 which really seems rather weak when you consider we added the 2 lbs of DME.. however I guess when you consider that the original premier can was not exactly huge (when compared to most LME cans, I reckon it makes more sense!.... oh well.. I reckon that means I can drink like 10 of 'em before getting a buzz!

 

[Dave R]

I thought the formula was OG-FG X 133. That's what I've been using all this time. This would give 3.7 ABV.

Which formula does everyone use?

*I wonder where I got 133 from!

 

[Corkster]

Hey bullrider -

I see that Corkster has gone on ahead an bottled after the first week, when he had his FG.

Pogo

Hey Pogo, I should actually be bottling today, which will be a full 10 days (I transferred over to secondary fermenter yesterday since it has a bottling spigot)

My FG has been consistent for the last 4 days so I'm good for bottling! =)

 

[Corkster]

I thought the formula was OG-FG X 133. That's what I've been using all this time. This would give 3.7 ABV.

Which formula does everyone use?

I got the formula from The Joy Of Home Brewing 3rd Edition....

" To determine alcohol content by means of the specific gravity scale... subtract the final specific gravity from the original specific gravity and multiply by 105 to get percent alcohol by weight"

Hmm... percent by weight..... now I'm confused...lol..... He goes on to say to convert Alcohol by weight to alcohol by volume multiply by 1.25......

 

[Dave R]

Ah, I found it. If you use John Palmer's chart here How to Brew - By John Palmer - How Much Alcohol Will There Be? you will see your beer comes in around 3.6%.
If you subtract OG from FG and multiply by 131 you get basically
the same answers.

131 is what I've been using all the time not 133.

 

[Corkster]

Thanks Dave!

That's a bit easier.... I did the method Charlie Papazian had in Joy... and then multiplied it by the 1.25 and came up with the same.... 3.6% so I guess both ways work but as your method is a lot easier I'll be using that from now on!