Pours flat when cold ???

[Burgs]

flat beer does not taste "sh1tty", it tastes like the beer, but without carbonation, you won't get a lot of aroma, and mouthfeel. If the beer does taste bad, perhaps it is comtamination, whether bottles or whole batch. Or the priming solution itself.

I feel you - and use of the word "****ty" is probably me being squeamish about it being flat and me being my own harshest critic. The beer is a touch too sweet, and that flaw is more apparent when it's flat and cold than when there is carbonation prickling your tongue and more aroma distracting you, if that makes sense. Some of it's probably psychological - i.e. - I know that my beer is a bit sweet, so when my brain realizes that my mouth has flat beer in it, it equates that with "I'm tasting straight wort or malt extract here". I don't have a lot to go off of to make this claim but, I don't think it's contaminated. I think it's just not adequately conditioned yet.

EDIT: and after reading Revvy's post again - I'd comment that I agree, flat beer shouldn't taste bad. BUT, green beer might!

 

[Burgs]

That's why you have inconsistent carbonation.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

Low sixties may not seem like a lot to you and me, BUT to those little yeasties that's a lot closer to hibernation temps than it is to their best temps to finish the job. You need to have it above 70 for as long as it needs.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

Thank you for this. I've heard it a million times but it never hurts to hear it again. My plan is to keep the batch in a warm spot in the house for 2 more weeks and go from there. In the mean time, I'll check out that link.

EDIT: ah yes, I remember that thread. Stickied for good reason.

 

[agenthucky]

I feel you - and use of the word "****ty" is probably me being squeamish about it being flat and me being my own harshest critic. The beer is a touch too sweet, and that flaw is more apparent when it's flat and cold than when there is carbonation prickling your tongue and more aroma distracting you, if that makes sense. Some of it's probably psychological - i.e. - I know that my beer is a bit sweet, so when my brain realizes that my mouth has flat beer in it, it equates that with "I'm tasting straight wort or malt extract here". I don't have a lot to go off of to make this claim but, I don't think it's contaminated. I think it's just not adequately conditioned yet.

The sweetness is a good sign that the priming sugar hasn't been consumed by the yeast. This happens to me every once and a while, if you are REALLY impatient, you can open them, add a small amount of dry yeast, and close them up again. This usually happens when I am impatient about tasting a bigger beer. It just so happens, that I drink most of it flat before it has the proper time it needs. I too get an additional sweetness, and a flat beer is surely dissapointing, but I want my dissapointment now! Usually before the batch is gone, the later half is in better shape.

Time cures a lot, even some cantaminated beers. Keep that in mind.

 

[Burgs]

Dude, yes! I thought about that too. I didn't remember my samples out of secondary tasting too sweet so I wondered. Then I thought the same thing - that's probably priming sugar I'm tasting.

I think the bottles I opened that were good - I just lucked out on. I think there are just a couple scattered bottles that are almost carbed, but for the most part the whole batch just needs to sit.

Damn thermometer up in the closet still says low/mid 60's though. *sigh*

Anyone ever take conditioning beer to work because their office is hotter than their home? I'm seriously considering it!

 

[roost9in]

This just happened to me. I made a Belgian Amber hopped it up like an IPA. Fantastic beer, but there's no head on it when it's cold.

I'd like to point out that when this has been the case in the past - the beer tastes better at 50 F! By better I mean more head (everyone like extra head!) and improved citrus aftertaste from the Cascade hops. Cold is nice on warm days, but this batch of beer wants to be served at cellar temperatures. I like to give my beer everything it wants.

 

[agenthucky]

Damn thermometer up in the closet still says low/mid 60's though. *sigh*

I've been reading this forum, and I don't see why so many people have made a huge deal that you bottle condition ABOVE 70F. While this is optimal, it is not the only way you can do it. I don't have enough room in my apartment where it gets to 70+ for the 3-4 cases I have conditioning at any one time. I keep a few in the kitchen cabinet, and the rest in my closet in my room where it is at 68F at the highest point. It gets colder than this, and I still have great carbonation on my beer. You can bottle condition at any temperature that the yeast will survive at, but it will just take additional time the colder it gets. I've had overcarbonated beer conditioning at 60-65F. This also depends on the yeast, some can even go down to low 50s, which is cellar temp, and a LOT of people condition in their cellars.

No one has seemed to mention the fact that if you are frustrated with your levels of carbonation, you might want to add more priming solution, and raise the temp of the conditioning, that this can be a bad idea as well. The higher temps will cause more bottle bombs if the yeast eat the priming solution, in addition to the sugar leftover in the beer, too fast, at too high of a temp.

I am relly suprised that no one has mentioned the more important factor in carbonation YEAST VIABILITY! This is by far the most important factor in producing a carbonated beer. You need healthy yeast in your bottles to carbonate, if you don't have enough, it can take an extremely long time, or not happen at all. Many people want a very clear beer, so they reduce the amount of yeast that goes into the bottle. I make sure to suck some yeast up into my bottling bucket, it will settle out of the bottle during conditioning, and you can leave it on the bottom when you pour.

If your beer has a clean sweetness, there is a good chance its the priming sugar. In that case, you can remove the caps from the bottles, add a little dry yeast, and cap them again. See if this does the trick in a few weeks.

I don't want to disregard the higher temp of conditioning, but it isn't a must to have carbonated beer. Yeast however, IS a must.

 

[edstirling]

someone mentioned it but priming technique is important. I always dissolve priming sugar in water and boil it on the stove for 10 minutes before pouring it into the bottling bucket. I start syphoning beer into the bucket and pour the sugar water in when the beer level is higher than the spigot, to make sure that a sugar concentrate doesn't hide inside the spigot while i'm mixing the rest in. I stir with a big spoon a bunch after all teh beer is in the bucket, and then give it another stir after every twelve bottles are filled. Remember, you want to make sure the sugar and the yeast are as evenly distributed as possible throughout the batch, although try to avoid oxygenating the beer.
I made a high gravity lager one time and decided to rack it to a tertiary fermenter for a couple weeks to settle out more sediment. the bottled beer was crystal clear but failed to carbonate, and I think it was because there wasn't enough yeast left. I found ONE bottle that poured a rich foamy head, but the rest were still as a pond. The bottles didn't have any sediment in them though. The beer was nonetheless delicious and the experience was interesting.

 

[agenthucky]

someone mentioned it but priming technique is important. I always dissolve priming sugar in water and boil it on the stove for 10 minutes before pouring it into the bottling bucket. I start syphoning beer into the bucket and pour the sugar water in when the beer level is higher than the spigot, to make sure that a sugar concentrate doesn't hide inside the spigot while i'm mixing the rest in.

Not a bad idea, I never gave that any though, I just toss my solution on the bottom of the bucket, the siphoning action mixes it enough, although I have adopted a quick stir in before I bottle with the racking cane. I'm not sure it would get stuck in the spigot, because when I add the priming solution, it doesn't go amove the spigot.

Disolving the sugar in CLEAN boiled water I think is a must. Granulated sugar will not disolve evenly, and will not mix evenly when combinded with the beer. Just make sure to cool the priming solution, so you don't kill the yeast that comes in contact with it.

I made a high gravity lager one time and decided to rack it to a tertiary fermenter for a couple weeks to settle out more sediment. the bottled beer was crystal clear but failed to carbonate, and I think it was because there wasn't enough yeast left.

With lagers, it is reccommended you pitch at least twice the amount of yeast you would normally pitch. For this, I make 2.5 gallons with a standard Wyeast 5 gallon activator pouch. This will prevent you from having to add yeast during bottling, which is a common practice with lagers, never ming higher gravity ones. I made my imperial pils (8.5%) that way and it carbonated perfectly. An alternative is adding a higher alcohol tolerant yeast at bottling time. Don't forger, with the high gravity lagers, the yeast is sitting under that amount of alcohol at very low temps. What you have that survives, is much less than with a lighter lager, or even more so with an ale.