Potential for oxidation during no-chill ‘chill’ phase?

[scone]

In light of the recent german brewing paper on LODO brewing and wort oxidation, I’m wondering about my no-chill process. I’m not here to debate whether no-chill can be used to make great beer, I’ve made many beers I like very much using no-chill over the last 3 years of using no-chill exclusively. Also, these two excellent experiments are worth a read if you don’t believe me:

http://brulosophy.com/2015/11/09/cooling-the-wort-pt-1-no-chill-vs-quick-chill-exbeeriment-results/
http://brulosophy.com/2015/02/09/a-year-of-no-chill-lessons-from-a-secret-xbmt/

However, almost everything I can find on no-chill on the internet uses the ‘cubes’ for the chilling vessel. There’s no room for air in those cubes (or if there is people seem to squeeze them tight to remove it). I use pony kegs for my no-chill vessel (and I ferment in them too) so I actually have a good 1.5+ gallons of headspace while I chill, usually for 12-24 hours before aerating and pitching yeast. At the risk of rekindling the HSA-fire, anyone know of experiments with no-chill process that treat the difference in wort oxidation vs. air in the no-chill container?

I can only imagine my wort is oxidizing during the chill process… and not knowing that much about brewing chemistry, I have no idea of the fermentation process will undo the effects completely, or if there are oxidized compounds that will remain through fermentation and make it into the final beer.

I’m reasonably happy with my beer, it could be better of course, and I’m wondering if I might be shooting myself in the foot by allowing for such a long wort oxidation period?

 

[MrFancyPlants]

You could flush your pony keg with co2 during the chill phase? Maybe just try half the batch to see if it turns out any better? I was wondering, with the LODO methods, are you still oxygenating before pitching yeast? Or using another method like a drop of olive oil to help with the yeast growth phase? Maybe just using a large active starter rather than oxygenating the wort?

 

[scone]

Flushing is a good idea, but would require some investment on my part into fittings to allow me to pump co2 into a sanke keg. I don't have any sanke fittings, only a tri-clover cap to seal the sanke after racking the hot wort into it.

I am currently trying to work out the potential DO in ppm from allowing the headspace and the wort to equalize overnight. It's complicated by a lot of factors

1. I don't know if partial pressure equilibrium would be reached in 24 hours so tables showing steady state DO in wort are not particularly useful for me

2. It's not at atmospheric pressure. When I cap the sanke it's basically full of about 90C liquid (and the headspace is full of ~90C air). The seal is very good and creates a vacuum that as far as I can figure using Gay-Lussac's Law will create 0.2 atm of pressure = -11.75 psi of pressure at 18C, which I can only guess will limit the oxygen uptake of the wort under such negative pressure

Not sure how I can go about figuring out an accurate model for oxygen uptake under such conditions.

I don't suppose anyone who no-chills in a sanke and happens to own a DO meter wants to run a little experiment for us?

 

[scone]

I was wondering, with the LODO methods, are you still oxygenating before pitching yeast? Or using another method like a drop of olive oil to help with the yeast growth phase? Maybe just using a large active starter rather than oxygenating the wort?

Not 100% sure since I have never attempted it, but from reading the paper it seems they oxygenate but only *after* pitching yeast.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Get a sankey tap and the sankey to ball lock adapters. Then you can flush, pressure transfer and even force carb with some teflon tape and a penny. I am between brewing spaces at the moment, but I got that figured out when providing beer for a wedding. It should be doable for $40 or less if you can find an old gutted Sankey tap.