Post your infection

[unionrdr]

If it's at a stable FG, & it's clear or slightly misty, Bottle it. I don't like waiting any longer than necessary.

 

[Resonator]

I hope so. This is week three of fermentation. At the end of week two, i had three days straight of what was a stuck fermentation (same hydrometer readings more than 8 points away from FG). I did the gentle swirl technique to try and rouse the yeast and three days later, i get bubbling in the airlock again. Today is three days after bubbling started again and i have what you see in the picture. Doesnt taste too bad, but I'll let it go to see if anything else develops.



Thanks for the response.

If it's stable I would just bottle it -- maybe if it's over 1.020 it may be stuck depending on the ingredients used. But don't worry if you don't hit your FG right on. Unless you're kegging -- I would try to make sure you still have some yeast in suspension when it's time to bottle.

During my first batch I waited too long fermenting it, and I even roused my yeast like you trying to hit my FG. When it came time to bottle, there wasn't enough yeast in suspension to carbonate the beer.

Also, the pic looks like yeast rafts and bubbles it doesn't look infected or appear to have a pellicle.

Just my $0.02 and best of luck

 

[Brew_G]

In regards to the above post, don't worry at all about having enough yeast for bottling. I cold crash and fine with gelatin and have very clear beer on bottling day - no issues with carbonation.

Oh...that beer looks fine and I'd agree with those who say to go ahead and get it bottled up.

 

[rideincircles]

Here is my first infection after 3.5 years of brewing. This was a partigyle hefeweizen I brewed and is only about 1.5 gallons or so. I was about to keg it and pulled my fermenter out from the chamber and covered it with a blanket. The beer ended up sitting there for a few days (not certain how long) before I noticed the bung had come off and the start of an infection had formed. I threw it back in the fridge for a while and it is now covered with a pellicle.

My question is what should be the next steps? Should I let it sit, keg it, Bottle it, or dump it? I was told it is probably lacto.

I have not brewed any sours yet so far, so I am curious how it turns out. It is possible that the infection started from fruit flies, but I did not see any floating around. I do plan on going thru some previous pages here to see the general consensus, but had not yet.

Does the bung and airlock now have bacteria that can't be removed? What about racking canes or tubing if I transfer it? If I contaminate other brew equipment I am inclined to dump it, but if it can be cleaned easily I will debate the options.

I will look more into this, but feel free to chime in if possible.

 

[unionrdr]

Fruit flies carry acetobacter bacteria, among other things. It seems to me you'd be more likely to smell a bit of vinegar if it were fruit flies. Might have to bleach bomb everything after it's all said & done.

 

[rideincircles]

It did not smell funny when I checked yesterday and took the picture. I don't want to contaminate my equipment to test the taste if it can't be cleaned, but was not sure if that is the case. I did check the gravity when I noticed it and I measured .996, but I am not sure if my hydrometer is off which I may confirm later. If I dump it, I will probably throw out the bung and airlock.

 

[unionrdr]

Unless they got blown full of krausen, the bung & airlock should be the cleanest parts...

 

[joshesmusica]

It did not smell funny when I checked yesterday and took the picture. I don't want to contaminate my equipment to test the taste if it can't be cleaned, but was not sure if that is the case. I did check the gravity when I noticed it and I measured .996, but I am not sure if my hydrometer is off which I may confirm later. If I dump it, I will probably throw out the bung and airlock.

If it got that low I'm not sure that it's wild yeast. If it doesn't begin to smell like vinegar (from acetobacter making acetic acid), then it is likely some kind of lactic bacteria. If it is that, it will taste a little more sour than expected. All that said, there's no way to know what it is just by looking at a picture.

 

[StagsHead]

Okay, so this is my first infection after four years of brewing. It is a Robust Porter recipe that was supposed to get blended with several batches to go into an empty Four Roses Bourbon barrel, but obviously that's not going to happen now. So my questions are 1) what kind of infection is this? Lacto, Brett, etc.? 2) do I keg carb and drink quickly? 3) or do I let it sit and see what happens? If I let it sit, what else do I need to do with it. Thanks in advance for the help?View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1446484213.271027.jpg

 

[DrunkleJon]

Okay, so this is my first infection after four years of brewing. It is a Robust Porter recipe that was supposed to get blended with several batches to go into an empty Four Roses Bourbon barrel, but obviously that's not going to happen now. So my questions are 1) what kind of infection is this? Lacto, Brett, etc.? 2) do I keg carb and drink quickly? 3) or do I let it sit and see what happens? If I let it sit, what else do I need to do with it. Thanks in advance for the help?View attachment 313439

Unfortunately it is near impossible to determine the type of infection, and is impossible by looking at the pellacle. I have had some delicious sour porters and stouts so I would let it ride unless it smells/tastes like vomit or is completely offensive. You never know, it may be a good one. If you need the fermentor though, go ahead and decide for yourself. If you dump, be sure and nuke the fermentor to kill all bugs in it.

 

[StagsHead]

Thanks! I've got plenty of fermenters so that's not an issue. It actually smells nice with just a slight "tang" to it. I've never worked with sours before, so is this something that I let sit for days, weeks, months? The pellicle has only been there for the past 3 or 4 days.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Sours can take weeks, months or up to a year or more. The amount of time is dependent on the amount of residual sugars, type of bacteria, etc. I am not an expert on sours though.

 

[StagsHead]

Sours can take weeks, months or up to a year or more. The amount of time is dependent on the amount of residual sugars, type of bacteria, etc. I am not an expert on sours though.

Thanks! I'll keep my eye on it and see how it goes. I have an empty 12 liter bourbon barrel that I just finished using for my Imperial Stout. I poured near boiling water into it to clean it out a little. I might rack into there and just let it sit for a while and see what happens. Thanks again!

 

[DrunkleJon]

Thanks! I'll keep my eye on it and see how it goes. I have an empty 12 liter bourbon barrel that I just finished using for my Imperial Stout. I poured near boiling water into it to clean it out a little. I might rack into there and just let it sit for a while and see what happens. Thanks again!

Know this. Once you add bugs to a barrel, its a sour barrel until the end of time. Look up sites like www.themadfermentationist.com and the sours section of this forum. You will find far more expertise there.

 

[StagsHead]

Yeah. That much I know. I have a pretty good source for used barrels, so I can always get another. Thanks.

 

[nikkuchan]

Okay, I think I got one. Witbier, 3 weeks in fermenter (don't mind the muslin bag). Checked on it to find a white film on the surface. Can't really tell. My big issue is that this is a plastic bucket, so if it is an infection, how should I best clean/sanitize it to kill of all the bacteria?

 

[joshesmusica]

Okay, I think I got one. Witbier, 3 weeks in fermenter (don't mind the muslin bag). Checked on it to find a white film on the surface. Can't really tell. My big issue is that this is a plastic bucket, so if it is an infection, how should I best clean/sanitize it to kill of all the bacteria?

No, do mind the muslin bag. Likely the source of the infection.

If it doesn't have any other spigots or any extraneous parts, you could do the bleach kill... rinse very, very, very well. Then go with some PBW on the upper end of the dosage. Rinse well. Then sanitize as normal.

And normal meaning make sure you get that muslin bag sanitized better next time. If it's full of dry hops, just toss them in next time. Likely saving you from getting an infected batch.

 

[nikkuchan]

No, do mind the muslin bag. Likely the source of the infection.

If it doesn't have any other spigots or any extraneous parts, you could do the bleach kill... rinse very, very, very well. Then go with some PBW on the upper end of the dosage. Rinse well. Then sanitize as normal.

And normal meaning make sure you get that muslin bag sanitized better next time. If it's full of dry hops, just toss them in next time. Likely saving you from getting an infected batch.

The muslin bag has the orange peel that I added to the boil, so the bag's been boiled, too. I wanted to leave it in the fermenter, but I didn't want it to clog the spigot when I bottled (happened before, and it wasn't fun), so I thought I'd put them in a muslin bag from the start. Bad idea I guess. I'm afraid to bottle an infected batch, but I'd feel bad tossing it...

 

[joshesmusica]

The muslin bag has the orange peel that I added to the boil, so the bag's been boiled, too. I wanted to leave it in the fermenter, but I didn't want it to clog the spigot when I bottled (happened before, and it wasn't fun), so I thought I'd put them in a muslin bag from the start. Bad idea I guess. I'm afraid to bottle an infected batch, but I'd feel bad tossing it...

Never mind then. Sorry, I assumed you were dry hopping it. If it was boiled, then, yes, you should ignore the muslin bag. It seems something else happened along the way with your sanitation.

For the most part, infections or wild yeast will take a while to really ferment the leftover sugars. They can metabolize more complex sugars than brewer's yeast sometimes, but it usually will take some time. Since it's a witbier it should be consumed pretty fresh anyways. If you're worried, you could just take the co2 volumes down a little more than normal to compensate for any bottles that might sit a couple of months. It might taste a little more tart than usual, depending on what the infection is, but I doubt it will make bad beer.

Just rack from underneath the white stuff to your bottling bucket. Let it sit at room temps for 3 weeks, then, if you can, put the whole batch in the fridge. Once in the fridge it will slow down any infection that might still be present enough to be able to consume the beers over the next couple of months. This is assuming a standard 5 gallon batch.

As far as making sure the bucket is infection free in the future, refer to my first post. But also, for future batches, make sure that you're not using anything that could scratch up the inside of the bucket. Any scratches will potentially harbor infectors. But I would suggest, as well, to go over your sanitation methods, just to be sure.

 

[Agate]

I'd use heat to sanitize the bucket. Dump near-boiling water into it, with all appropriate safety precautions. Food grade buckets can handle it. That's really the best way to guarantee the bugs are dead. 10 minutes at 180°F will do it.

 

[Agate]

But - don't do this with glass or a PET carboy. Glass would really ruin your day, and PET would be deformed or melted.

 

[SHAIV]

Here's mine. I didn't get a picture of the fermenter. It looks like wierd bubbles. I racked from under it. I got it coming back in a few of my bottles. I don't think I'll drink the ones with this stuff in the top. Would you drink it?

 

[SHAIV]

Woops hit the wrong button

View attachment 1446637406557.jpg

View attachment 1446637437547.jpg

 

[Agate]

No reason not to if they taste ok. The infection is in the entire beer, not just the pellicle, so there really isn't any difference between the ones with bottle pellicles and the ones without. Might just be more O2 in the headspace of those bottles for some reason.

 

[Radboud]

Came across this today when bottling my Old Speckled Hen clone. They are yeast rafts and they are perfectly OK. Used Nottingham for this batch. Thought I'd share, first time I saw these puppies I kind of freaked out

 

[SHAIV]

No reason not to if they taste ok. The infection is in the entire beer, not just the pellicle, so there really isn't any difference between the ones with bottle pellicles and the ones without. Might just be more O2 in the headspace of those bottles for some reason.

Yeah I think they are now starting to go bad even the ones without the visible signs. It looks great but it is really strong in alcohol and it's starting to taste bad. This is a pic of the same beer without any visible pellicle in the bottle

View attachment 1446949774611.jpg

 

[macesq]

Would be happy to have some help from more experienced brewers here! I have very little experience with infection beyond an unwanted Brett appearance or two.

Tried my hand at a berliner weisse for the first time a few weeks back; ran into some troubles which @Agate helped me with here. It seems some unwanted yeast or bacteria crawled in each of my batches during the lacto stage, which I did around 75-80 for a few days. Saved one of the 5-gallon pails (whatever chewed up my wort wasn't too bad), but the other was terrible -- not sure exactly how I'd describe the smell, maybe something like mothballs -- and I dumped that one.

Fast forward to last week, and I'm trying my hand again: already bought the fruit puree and the grain bill is cheap. That same fermenter was my last one left, and it was soaking alternately in diluted bleach and star san solution with frequent rinsing and some time in the sun since the last infection. Assuming the problem last time was the long, room-temperature lacto stage, I kettle-soured in 24 hours around 115-20. Great pH drop in short order with the same lacto B culture as last time (I save cultures from the starter), and I racked the now-sour wort into that fermenter and immediately pitched a small starter each of brett B and L. At time of racking, I didn't notice anything unusual and I didn't see any gravity drop over the 24 hours in the kettle.

Hit krausen earlier this week, nothing unusual about it, and it had died down by last night. Eager to see how this second batch was coming along, I took a sample and was disappointed to find the same gross aroma as last time. The best I can continue to come up with is something akin to mothballs, but in my search to figure out what is going on I guess I'd call it fecal or like vomit (really just because those are the most disgusting descriptors I can find). Based on that, the best I can come up with is mercaptan or one of indole-producing bacteria or butyric acid discussed at the Sour Beer Blog.

I don't know where mercaptan would come from, since this had a very low OG and I pitched two starters of brett. Given that I turned this up to 120 at times that should rule out butyric acid-producing bacteria. Leaving only indole-producing bacteria. I'll note, however, that this seems to be getting worse (I took a whiff again today), and per the Sour Beer Blog my low pH should knock out anything actively producing these notes.

I'd like to get to the bottom of this, either figuring out that there's something wrong with that pail that I can't beat, or that my BW process is faulty. And, to figure out if I can salvage this! I'm both frustrated and bummed out at this point, as I thought I'd made up for my errors last time.

Sorry for potato quality, but here's a recent picture. Could well be the remnants of the krausen, as it only recently fell, but figured it was worth a shot:

 

[beergolf]

Sorry for potato quality,

That is the problem, you used low quality potatoes...

Only kidding. What are the black squares?

 

[macesq]

That is the problem, you used low quality potatoes...

Only kidding. What are the black squares?

Oak cubes! Boiled for a bit beforehand to take the edge off and knock out any unfriendlies.

 

[Agate]

So are you using the same culture for each of these? I'm thinking that it is contaminated with something. Have you tried a fresh lacto culture for any of these? Something else you can try with your fermenter is pasteurizing with heat. If you can safely hold it at 160°F for 15 minutes or so, that should kill everything in the bucket that can contaminate later batches. Just don't try this with glass or PET carboys...