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Friend sent this to me:

First time ever fermenting with dry. It was an emergency.

After Krausen fell their SG was still too high so they added another pack of dry yeast (Lalbrew English Ale)

is this an infection starting or dry yeast rafts?

I think it could go either way.

this is day 3 of fermentation. Second pack was added on day 2
Looks like the beginning of a pellicule to me...

MC
 

IslandLizard

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After Krausen fell their SG was still too high so they added another pack of dry yeast (Lalbrew English Ale)
[...]
this is day 3 of fermentation. Second pack was added on day 2
I just saw this now (my emphasis).

As you know as well as pretty much everyone on this forum who fermented a batch, fermentation doesn't take 1 day, or 2 days. It usually takes a week, or 2 weeks, or longer to finish out. Even after krausen has fallen the yeast is still working, conditioning.

Hence the SG was pretty much the same (high) as what it was when they pitched the yeast.

Especially using dry yeast, 1-2 days is barely enough time to even develop a krausen. Your friends must have been confused with other kind of foam.
 

ajbosley2015

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I just saw this now (my emphasis).

As you know as well as pretty much everyone on this forum who fermented a batch, fermentation doesn't take 1 day, or 2 days. It usually takes a week, or 2 weeks, or longer to finish out. Even after krausen has fallen the yeast is still working, conditioning.

Hence the SG was pretty much the same (high) as what it was when they pitched the yeast.

Especially using dry yeast, 1-2 days is barely enough time to even develop a krausen. Your friends must have been confused with other kind of foam.
He sent me pics of high krausen so he isn’t lying.

He told me his OG was 1.102, and it was at 1.060 after 2 days so I believe him wholeheartedly.

that said, as you know and many other here know, it’s not uncommon for batches to completely finish in 1-2 days especially if using a kveik (sure this wasn’t one, but that blanket statement is inaccurate). I’ve literally been to weekend long events where people brewed and carbonated within 48 hours and had a completely finished brew.

im Leaning toward the picture being rehydrated yeast that’s on the surface since this is a true top-cropper but if he sends pics of progression I will share
 

ajbosley2015

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He sent me pics of high krausen so he isn’t lying.

He told me his OG was 1.102, and it was at 1.060 after 2 days so I believe him wholeheartedly.

that said, as you know and many other here know, it’s not uncommon for batches to completely finish in 1-2 days especially if using a kveik (sure this wasn’t one, but that blanket statement is inaccurate). I’ve literally been to weekend long events where people brewed and carbonated within 48 hours and had a completely finished brew.

im Leaning toward the picture being rehydrated yeast that’s on the surface since this is a true top-cropper but if he sends pics of progression I will share
This reply isn’t really a reply to you Lizard, but an update. Been racked into a secondary to see if it could have been potentially infected. Looks like he made it out unscathed.
 

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Beeru

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So about two weeks ago i racked this braggot into a carboy, and at that time there was no sign of a pellicle, and it tasted quite nice. The recipe is basically 50% honey, 30% 2-row, 20% rye, and some orange peel, and a small amount of centennial and cascade hops. Oh and there’s a little caramel 60L in there.

Anyway, I just went into the brew closet and noticed quite a large white film over top that I’m quite certain is a pellicle. When I moved it to the counter top it disturbed it and some of it sank down a little, so the picture doesn’t really do it any justice.

I had a taste and it’s basically the same as last time I tasted it. What i’m wondering now is if I should just keg this now (which would mean having to drink / give away in growlers a couple gallons of beer today to free up a keg). Or should I throw it in the back of the closet for a year and see what happens - maybe get a cool funky sour braggot. it’s a tough call.

Oh also, it was in a closet with three carboys of Flanders Red fermenting away, and I noticed that the plastic bung on this carboy wasn’t gripping the glass, so it was a little loose. My guess is that this is from the brett (and whatever else is in the Roselare blend for the Reds) rather than being wild yeast from the honey, and the oxygen that would have got in explains the quick pellicle growth.

So what would you do? Keg it right away and enjoy a definitely tasty braggot for christmas? Or leave it for a year, maybe throw some oak in it even, and next christmas potentially have a funky sour braggot? could even add some dextrose to enhance the funk?

206A7EB6-30BD-4F7D-B0E5-543BB0715168.jpeg
 

Dgallo

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So about two weeks ago i racked this braggot into a carboy, and at that time there was no sign of a pellicle, and it tasted quite nice. The recipe is basically 50% honey, 30% 2-row, 20% rye, and some orange peel, and a small amount of centennial and cascade hops. Oh and there’s a little caramel 60L in there.

Anyway, I just went into the brew closet and noticed quite a large white film over top that I’m quite certain is a pellicle. When I moved it to the counter top it disturbed it and some of it sank down a little, so the picture doesn’t really do it any justice.

I had a taste and it’s basically the same as last time I tasted it. What i’m wondering now is if I should just keg this now (which would mean having to drink / give away in growlers a couple gallons of beer today to free up a keg). Or should I throw it in the back of the closet for a year and see what happens - maybe get a cool funky sour braggot. it’s a tough call.

Oh also, it was in a closet with three carboys of Flanders Red fermenting away, and I noticed that the plastic bung on this carboy wasn’t gripping the glass, so it was a little loose. My guess is that this is from the brett (and whatever else is in the Roselare blend for the Reds) rather than being wild yeast from the honey, and the oxygen that would have got in explains the quick pellicle growth.

So what would you do? Keg it right away and enjoy a definitely tasty braggot for christmas? Or leave it for a year, maybe throw some oak in it even, and next christmas potentially have a funky sour braggot? could even add some dextrose to enhance the funk?

View attachment 711012
Looks like the start of a pellicle for sure. If you rack it to the keg it will slow the bugs until it in finished, however you will be putting bugs in a clean keg. All depends on your comfort level. I personally would let it do it’s thing. You might make a great wild beer!

especially since you like sour/wilds (you wouldn’t be making a Flanders if you didn’t lol). Let it go lol
 

Beeru

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Looks like the start of a pellicle for sure. If you rack it to the keg it will slow the bugs until it in finished, however you will be putting bugs in a clean keg. All depends on your comfort level. I personally would let it do it’s thing. You might make a great wild beer!

especially since you like sour/wilds (you wouldn’t be making a Flanders if you didn’t lol). Let it go lol
It’s true, I do like a sour / wild ale. This recipe wasn’t designed with a sour profile in mind but I think it could be quite good.
 

IslandLizard

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So about two weeks ago i racked this braggot into a carboy, and at that time there was no sign of a pellicle, and it tasted quite nice. The recipe is basically 50% honey, 30% 2-row, 20% rye, and some orange peel, and a small amount of centennial and cascade hops. Oh and there’s a little caramel 60L in there.

Anyway, I just went into the brew closet and noticed quite a large white film over top that I’m quite certain is a pellicle. When I moved it to the counter top it disturbed it and some of it sank down a little, so the picture doesn’t really do it any justice.

I had a taste and it’s basically the same as last time I tasted it. What i’m wondering now is if I should just keg this now (which would mean having to drink / give away in growlers a couple gallons of beer today to free up a keg). Or should I throw it in the back of the closet for a year and see what happens - maybe get a cool funky sour braggot. it’s a tough call.

Oh also, it was in a closet with three carboys of Flanders Red fermenting away, and I noticed that the plastic bung on this carboy wasn’t gripping the glass, so it was a little loose. My guess is that this is from the brett (and whatever else is in the Roselare blend for the Reds) rather than being wild yeast from the honey, and the oxygen that would have got in explains the quick pellicle growth.

So what would you do? Keg it right away and enjoy a definitely tasty braggot for christmas? Or leave it for a year, maybe throw some oak in it even, and next christmas potentially have a funky sour braggot? could even add some dextrose to enhance the funk?

View attachment 711012
Can bugs jump from one fermenter into the next? No. But air flows can spread them, sure. They still need to find a way inside, though...
Are you using the same equipment for fermenting and transferring clean beer and sours? Especially tubing is hard to clean/sanitize and can hold onto biofilms.

It looks like you've got a huge headspace in that secondary carboy. That's not deterring any bugs that inadvertently got in, most thrive on oxygen, while Brett (if that's what's in there too) can crank out acetic acid in presence of O2.

If you decide to let this run its course, you need to reduce that headspace, to limit air/O2 exposure. Add some more beer or braggot to it, all the way up to an inch under the bung.
Or some mead/wort to give it another fermentation, which will purge the headspace for you at the same time. When that's done top up to leave that 1" tiny headspace/expansion space under the bung.

Alternatively you could flush it with CO2, that will reduce O2 but not totally eliminate it. Depending on how tight the bung seals, O2 may still find its way inside, that's why a smaller headspace is always recommended.

Kegs make excellent secondaries/bulk conditioning vessels. Once used for sours stick with them for that or replace all rubber seals and really clean them. Hot Caustic Soda and such.
 

Beeru

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Can bugs jump from one fermenter into the next? No. But air flows can spread them, sure. They still need to find a way inside, though...
Are you using the same equipment for fermenting and transferring clean beer and sours? Especially tubing is hard to clean/sanitize and can hold onto biofilms.

It looks like you've got a huge headspace in that secondary carboy. That's not deterring any bugs that inadvertently got in, most thrive on oxygen, while Brett (if that's what's in there too) can crank out acetic acid in presence of O2.

If you decide to let this run its course, you need to reduce that headspace, to limit air/O2 exposure. Add some more beer or braggot to it, all the way up to an inch under the bung.
Or some mead/wort to give it another fermentation, which will purge the headspace for you at the same time. When that's done top up to leave that 1" tiny headspace/expansion space under the bung.

Alternatively you could flush it with CO2, that will reduce O2 but not totally eliminate it. Depending on how tight the bung seals, O2 may still find its way inside, that's why a smaller headspace is always recommended.

Kegs make excellent secondaries/bulk conditioning vessels. Once used for sours stick with them for that or replace all rubber seals and really clean them. Hot Caustic Soda and such.
Yeah I’ve already purged it with C02.

The reason I think it could be infected with the Brett is that I used this bung that came with a metal primary, but didn’t realize that it didn’t grip the glass of the carboy, so it wasn’t really sealed. it was loosely sitting on top and letting air in. I have a separate set of syphon hoses and primaries for when I make sours usually.
 

Adam Zerwick

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Pinkish krausen on the chiller coil after transferring an IPA to keg. Didn't taste off but looks like nothing I've seen in my beers. Thoughts?
PXL_20210109_193751873.MP.jpg
 

ajbosley2015

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A
Pinkish krausen on the chiller coil after transferring an IPA to keg. Didn't taste off but looks like nothing I've seen in my beers. Thoughts?View attachment 713775
a quick search will show that this is Serratia marcescens, and while not insanely dangerous...it’s going to continue growing, and it is in the beer you just transferred.

100% dump the batch no if’s ands or buts. Then completely clean everything that could have touched that beer because it is also now carrying this water-borne bacteria.

this is akin to the pink slime that forms inside of restaurant ice makers. It actually really likes non-pour out materials to colonize (hence the stainless)

yeah, it sucks, but I’d pitch that batch immediately and start cleaning. (By the way, this bacteria is not always pink...sometimes it can present itself as orange, rust-ish, green/grey...I’m guessing it’s been there for while.
Remember: there is no substitute for hand scrubbing. Too often people rely on CIP and recirculating but never do the deep clean. If you don’t...you are asking for trouble (especially on the cold side)
 

Adam Zerwick

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a quick search will show that this is Serratia marcescens, and while not insanely dangerous...it’s going to continue growing, and it is in the beer you just transferred.

100% dump the batch no if’s ands or buts. Then completely clean everything that could have touched that beer because it is also now carrying this water-borne bacteria.

this is akin to the pink slime that forms inside of restaurant ice makers. It actually really likes non-pour out materials to colonize (hence the stainless)

yeah, it sucks, but I’d pitch that batch immediately and start cleaning. (By the way, this bacteria is not always pink...sometimes it can present itself as orange, rust-ish, green/grey...I’m guessing it’s been there for while.
Remember: there is no substitute for hand scrubbing. Too often people rely on CIP and recirculating but never do the deep clean. If you don’t...you are asking for trouble (especially on the cold side)
Thanks for the reply. I did a bit of searching yesterday and came across Serratia so I guess this was more or less the equivalent of going to a second doctor to get another opinion. I was thinking there might be some chance it was normal fermentation gunk that had oxidized.

It's hard for me to understand how this came about since I do scrub everything that's scrubbable. The other cold size stuff like valves, gaskets, transfer hose I let soak in a PBW mix for an hour or so. The chilling coil gets submerged in the PBW mix and also scrubbed with a sponge and wire brush. The fermenter (spike flex+) gets scrubbed with a little PBW solution and my new favorite sponge (scrub daddy). Everything gets soaked in an iodophor solution maybe 15 minutes prior to filling with wort.

It wasn't clear to me from what I read online what would happen if I drank the beer.
 

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I had a beer batch that never stopped to bubble, the bubbling was slow but continuous. After the first three or four weeks the taste was still acceptable but, true to the proper procedure of waiting the end of the attenuation, I waited. And waited, and waited, and waited.

On day 49 after the beer preparation the density had arrived to 1,001, the OG was probably 1,040.

(I don't know exactly because I had so many problems during the brew, it was my first E+G, I did many wrong things, I was nervous and I was very tired, it was late at night, so I thought "I'll take the density reading tomorrow". But I had taken the sample after the yeast inoculation, so the day after it was beginning to ferment.)

An apparerent attenuation of 100% is a sure sign of infection. I tasted the beer and it had a clear aftertaste of vomit. I asked on a forum whether an infection could produce hydrochloric acid and I was told it was very likely butyric acid. If let to mature for a long time, it should create an ester with a nice pineapple aroma, but it's imperative to wait for the vomit smell to have gone away. I saved 5 litres for a future distillation.
 

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Infected with bottle dregs high in lacto,
Massive headspace not helping anything.
Thought some bits may be mold but it collects like a thin skin when I take a sample. Given my luck it'll probably be mold but it's smelling and tasting how I was hoping lol
20210113_174036.jpg
 
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Erik the Anglophile

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Ís ok snœrs ok miðnótts boði landi frá komum
Fermenting an ESB, pitched last friday and had a big creuzen and high activity until monday morning, then it slowed down. Now I have these blobs floating on the surface and wonder if I should be worried.
Not the best pic, but it looks very much like the yeast ring left from creuzen and seems to slowly get thinner for the past 2 days or so, so I suspect some yeast that for some reason floccs a bit slower, or a (slow) fermentation is still going on.

Edit: checked today and there was a clear reduction of stuff floating on the surface, and some particles singling down towards the bottom.
I feel fairly confident it is just some yeasties that for some reason floccs slower than the rest.
 

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First time using llalemand New England yeast. Cleaning and sanitizing practises are good.
Beer 13 days in fermenter. Has hit and stayed at expected FG. Smells and tastes good.
Very surprised to see this.

Have compared to a lot of other pics of pellicle. Doesn't quite look the same to me.
Surely some kind of infection though?!
 

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beer still tasted good so racked it off the yeast, pasteurised it, chilled it then popped it into a sanitised FV with a tonne of dry hops
fingers crossed.
 

IslandLizard

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beer still tasted good so racked it off the yeast, pasteurised it, chilled it then popped it into a sanitised FV with a tonne of dry hops
fingers crossed.
Heat pasteurization, depending on temperature and duration, may kill the "bugs" but also (negatively) affect how the beer tastes. I've never tried it, or read much about it. Please let us know how that panned out.

That bucket needs a through cleaning...
I would use hot (homemade) PBW or Oxiclean (Free), scrubbing/rubbing the insides with a non-scratching nylon brush, non-abrasive (scouring) pad or washcloth. You don't want to scratch it, just have some extra friction when rubbing to remove any biofilm that may cling to the walls, bottom, rim, etc. Don't forget the lid, and groove.

You could add a small amount (~1/4 tsp per gallon) of Lye (drain opener) to your PBW/Oxi for some extra oomph, but beware, wear proper face/eye protection and rubber gloves when using lye, even diluted, it's very caustic. It dissolves skin and even a small splash in the eye needs to be washed out immediately and thoroughly, and requires immediate doctor's attention as it could cause blindness.

Then after rinsing, some "bleach bombing" afterward, and/or set outside propped, so bright sunlight can shine inside on all sides. UV light kills lots of nasties. Right now I have 2 buckets outside, propped under a ~45° angle facing the bright midday sun for over a week. Probably overkill, but I want to make sure. After transferring the beer, I hadn't cleaned them right away, and forgot about them, then discovered something nasty started growing inside...
 

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So my RIS that's been aging for about 5-6 months is rapidly changing. I think I have a sour RIS.

It's been sitting under the stairs minding it's own business, with me pulling an occasional sample with a little post mounted tap (was originally pressurized to about 15 psi so I could do this once a month or so). I enjoyed tasting it slowly evolve and was excited to really get into it this winter.

A few weeks ago though the pressure started going up on its own, and after watching this continue to happen my last sample tastes more like a sour beer combined with an RIS. Gravity is dropping too, was at 1.026 originally and is at 1.018 and dropping. I popped the top and it looks normal, nothing floating on it.

Any thoughts? Is it safe to sample? I am guessing I'll dump it, thoroughly clean it, replace all the O-rings, and I guess just be more careful next time. What a drag, lots of time and $'s will probably go down the drain.
 

IslandLizard

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So my RIS that's been aging for about 5-6 months is rapidly changing. I think I have a sour RIS.

[...] Any thoughts? Is it safe to sample? I am guessing I'll dump it,
Yeah, surely sounds like it.

[Edits]
Basically, fermented goods such as beer, even when (unintentionally) infected, are usually safe to consume, because nothing can grow in beer that can harm you. Mold is an exception, no fooling around with that. But it's extremely rare to get mold growth in a fully fermented beer, and it won't taste sour, from what I understand.

Intentionally soured beers can be truly delicious, but the accidental ones are more of a crapshoot flavor/aroma wise, as many incidental bugs that cause infections just don't make good beer.

I've had some unintentionally soured stouts and RIS that were wonderful, possibly on par or even better than their clean version would have been. The long term aging process at ambient temps brings out your sanitation flaws more than a kegerator/keezer stored beer would.

If the sour beer is appealing to you or someone who appreciates, put it in your keezer/kegerator to arrest or slow down the souring process, and drink it.

If it's disgusting, well cut your losses, and brew a new one. But before you do, find out what may have caused the infection. It's very unlikely something got inside your keg after you filled, closed and carbonated it. But a tainted rubber diptube o-ring or lid gasket, or uncleaned PRV could show it's ugly head. So can racking tubing, or perhaps something got into your fermenter.

Oh, that keg once it's empty, needs to be thoroughly cleaned, every piece of it that touches or gets close to your beer.
 
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