Possible oxygenation

[Dopple]

Was just working on brewing my 5th batch and decided to crack open a beer from my 4th batch to drink during the boil. I immediately detected some off flavors that I had also encountered in my 2nd batch beers. My best description is that it tasted stale and sour. It tasted fine before I bottled it, so I'm thinking maybe I oxygenated it during bottling. I did some reading and realized I may have given the beer too much space in the bottles. Maybe I did some accidental sloshing when transferring to the bottle bucket? I'm trying to track down the problem since I have had this happen to a batch before.

Quick run down of known problems:

- pitching warm
- fermenting warm
- transferred beer from boil to bucket before cooling
- bottled without a wand (wand didn't fit in tubing that attached to new fermenting bucket) giving about 2.5 inches empty space in the neck

Do any of these issues produce the stale/sour taste that I'm detecting? Is there something I'm missing or doing wrong that commonly produces these results? Any help would be greatly appreciated so I can squash this big that has been plaguing my beers.

 

[twistr25]

How warm were all of the steps you mentioned? Being that it is your 5th batch, are they new bottles or how well did you clean them if not? Bad cleaning and sanitation of the bottles could lead to infections too.

 

[Dopple]

It's been fermenting around 80 give or take. Pitching around the same. Since the beer tastes fine before bottling I'd like to think these arent critical contributing factors. The bottles have been used for about three batches now, my last of which was quite good. I clean with PBW and star san before bottling.

 

[Golddiggie]

Stale and sour? How long did you let them ferment, and how long in bottles before chilling and pouring to glass?? Does the taste remind you more of green apples? If so, then the beer is simply 'green' or too young. Give them more time before you chill more to pour.

Depending on the yeast you're using 80F could be a large part of the flavors you're getting. IMO, that's a HOT fermenting temperature. Was that the ambient/air temp, or the actual fermenting beer temp? The ale yeasts I use do best in the 60-70F range. I normally aim to get them to be below 70F for the fermentation time.

If the flavor isn't more like apples, and you're 100% sure you don't have an infection, it's possible you oxidized the beer on transfer either to the bottling bucket, or bottles. A little 'accidental' sloshing shouldn't be enough to oxidize your beer. Although, not using the bottling wand very well could produce enough air mixing to oxidize the brew.

Sounds like you need to get more than a few issues resolved there. Before you bottle another batch, make sure you don't have infected hardware. Also get the bottling wand situated. Get your temperatures in line too.

 

[Dopple]

Well, for the record, it is still green. Fermented three weeks in primary and bottled since mondy. I wont fridge them for real for two more weeks, just wanted to test one.

Fermenting temperature is my biggest issue right now and I know it, but I'm running on a limited budget and can not buy equipment every so often. Temp control is next up on things to get under wraps.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[Golddiggie]

Well, for the record, it is still green. Fermented three weeks in primary and bottled since mondy. I wont fridge them for real for two more weeks, just wanted to test one.

Fermenting temperature is my biggest issue right now and I know it, but I'm running on a limited budget and can not buy equipment every so often. Temp control is next up on things to get under wraps.

Thanks for all the input.

WTF??? You KNEW it was green, tasted green, and you posted up about oxidation??

In order to avoid you posting about carbonation, give it a MINIMUM of three weeks at 70F+ and then chill the bottle(s) for at least 5-7 days (better off going 7+ days for you) before pouring to a glass to sample.

If you cannot ferment the brews within the temperature range the yeast works best at, then make that your top priority. Even with a limited budget, you can make a swamp cooler. It simply takes a plastic bin, water, and ice packs (or bottles of frozen water), changed periodically to maintain the right temperature range. Add a towel, or t-shirt to cover the fermenter, and go into the chilled water, and you have a swamp cooler.

 

[Dopple]

Thanks thanks thanks.

For what it's worth I'm a newb. I worry about ****.

 

[Dopple]

Also for the record I didn't know beers being green gave them a "green" taste.

 

[twistr25]

Cheap way to regulate your temperatures better is making a swamp cooler. You can use a cheap rope bucket or rubbermaid container. Fill it with water about 2/3, add your bucket and add frozen water bottles. I change mine out about 4 times a day, whenever I notice that they've melted, just switch them out. Much cheaper and easier than making a fermentation chamber.

EDIT: Didn't finish reading Golddiggie's post, but another +1 to the swamp cooler

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

It's been fermenting around 80 give or take. Pitching around the same.

bottled since monday.

^those are your issues. Oxidation wouldn't likely be showing up at this point in the game, as it takes a bit of time to stale the beer. You fermented way to warm and only gave the beer a few days in bottles, I can't think of two more obvious reasons your beers are tasting tart.

 

[Dopple]

Thanks again for the replies. I'll take the necessary steps to improve my process moving forward.