Porter -questions on hops and smoke

[davel57]

I'm pretty new at this and I have a couple of questions on a Porter I want to brew.

First, the beers I've brewed so far have not ended up with enough hop flavor. They seemed OK at bottling, but lost too much by the time they were ready to drink.

I though I'd try "hop bursting" on this one. I started this recipe with just the Goldings. I haven't used them before, but I understand they are pretty mild. Will the hop bursting bring plenty of flavor? (I like hops). Should I stick with just the Goldings in this recipe, or add a bit of Ahtanum (which I just happen to have) to get a litle more flavor(see recipe). Will Ahtanum conflict too much with the Goldings?

Also, originally I wanted to make this a smoked porter, but the smoke grains all require mashing. Should I add a little (1/4 tsp) of Wright's Liquid smoke (in 3 gallons)? Should I try smoking the grain in my pellet smoker? Or just go without the smoke?


Porter

Original Gravity (OG): 1.061 (°P): 15.0
Colour (SRM): 39.3 (EBC): 77.4
Bitterness (IBU): 41.6 (Average)

62.26% LME - Munich (Northern Brewer)
14.15% Dry Malt Extract - Light
9.43% Special-B
4.72% Black Malt (Simpsons)
4.72% Carafa II malt
4.72% Honey Malt

0.2 oz/Gal Ahtanum (5.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 oz/Gal East Kent Golding (4.7% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 oz/Gal East Kent Golding (4.7% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)


WLP007 - Dry English Ale

 

[RitsiGators]

I tried hopbursting in an IPA for the first time a few weeks ago, it seems to give a really nice flavor and aroma, but I hear that it fades fairly quickly.

As for the liquid smoke, I would be very careful if you end up using it. I I think you might be able to soak some smoked malt and extract the smokiness from it (you wouldn't have any gravity contributions though). Here is a link to a thread about getting smoke flavor from steeping.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/can-smoked-malt-steeped-114266/

Dont listen to what they say about peated malt though, if you like peat you can use way more than a couple ounces, I have a beer that had 12 oz of peated malt and at two weeks in the bottle it already tastes great.

Finally, smoke and hops can have an interesting way of interacting, so be prepared for that.

 

[Calder]

Smoked Porter and full-on hops is just too busy.

0.2 ozs at 20 for bittering. The beer is going to be missing a lot of IBUs. Make it 2 ozs at 60 minutes, and you will get closer to the mark. Move the 20 minute to 5 or flame-out; it's not doing anything at 20.

Steep with some Peat Smoked malt. 4 ozs in 5 gallons is enough. Start with that, I think that will be plenty; you can always go bigger next time, but you can't take it out. Make sure it's Peat Smoked malt. You will need to use lots more of the Cherry, beechwood, or alderwood smoked malts (lbs) to get the same effect.

If you are only steeping, drop the Honey Malt. I think it would make it too busy anyway.

Now we will have lots of argument; but I think a decent Porter should have 10 to 15% Chocolate and no Black.

 

[davel57]

Smoked Porter and full-on hops is just too busy.

0.2 ozs at 20 for bittering. The beer is going to be missing a lot of IBUs. Make it 2 ozs at 60 minutes, and you will get closer to the mark. Move the 20 minute to 5 or flame-out; it's not doing anything at 20.

I think I agree on smoke and lots of hops being too busy. This time through I'm leaning towards dropping the smoke and leaving the hops. Still not sure about mixing the British and American hops, That idea came from second guessing my choice of EK Goldings which I haven't used before.

Actually that's .2 ozs per gallon of wort - 1 oz in 5 gallons. Beermate likes to export the measurements that way, I haven't decided if I like it. Overall IBU was around 41 which seemed OK.

As far as the short hopping times, I was trying to do this:
http://www.mrmalty.com/late_hopping.htm

Now we will have lots of argument; but I think a decent Porter should have 10 to 15% Chocolate and no Black.

I've heard that before, I only put both in because I recently had a beer that was done that way and I liked it.

 

[Bob]

There are many different ways to brew Porter. I happen to think Black Patent is essential for Robust Porter, in combination with Crystal and Chocolate malts. (I converted to Terry Foster's ideas early on from reading his Brewer's Publications book on the styles.)

While you're learning the ins and outs of Porter, I'd keep it simple. First work on nailing the hops-flavor profile you want, then fiddle with smoke.*

In my brewery, the preferred method is to add a traditional bittering charge to set the IBU, then lots (more of less) of hops at flameout to set flavor and aroma. Be careful how much you add, though; you don't want the hops to overwhelm the malt.

My Coal Porter is a pretty well-balanced example of the style, from which excursions into greater hops character may be started.

Cheers!

Bob

* I'm of the opinion that smoke has no place in Porter, but many disagree. I really, really dislike smoked beers.

 

[kanzimonson]

1) Hop bursting is great, but I really think it needs to be backed up by just a bit of bittering hops for the full boil.

2) I don't have any experience with this, but I'm hesitant to add the liquid smoke.

3) I agree that a relatively hoppy beer might conflict with the smoke.

4) Goldings and Ahtanum is probably a weird mix but it could work. Floral and citrus? In theory it sounds good, but I really feel like those English hops are completely different from the American.

 

[davel57]

Thanks for all the good advice. I had an amber at lunch today that used the EK Goldings and it was very tasty, so I think I'll forget the Ahtanum this time (and the smoke). I'll take another look at the hops schedule and decide how I want to approach it.