Poor hops utilization with hop-spider?

[isomerization]

I've got the same spider as you and find it works well. My beers turn out nice and hoppy, no complaints there. The worst part about using it is cleaning it afterwards really. You stir your hops up more often than me but otherwise we are using very similar processes.

As for the open hops problem you might want to look into a vacuum sealer. I'll take my 1lbs hop bag and make a bunch of smaller 2oz bags for storage. They seem to last for a long time doing it that way.

+1 on vacuum sealing hops. I just make a large bag and reseal after use, FYI.

 

[Mike123]

I use the official Grainfather hop spider, which is an 800 micron mesh as opposed to the 200-400 micron mesh of most other hop spiders. That's a MUCH larger opening which allows for far greater circulation--at least twice if not quadruple the area open of most hop spiders--while still containing the bulk of the hop material, even for pellet hops.

During the boil, I stir the hops inside the spider at least every 10 minutes or so. During the hop stand, I put the recirculation pump hose into the hop spider. Before I got the Grainfather hop spider, I used the cheap muslin bags from my LHBS to contain each hop addition due to the pump clogging issue. I haven't noticed any decrease in utilization since switching from the bags to the spider.

I am sure there is slightly less utilization than putting the hops in loose, but I find the far more difficult thing in trying to dial in my targeted IBUs is estimating how much my open 1 lb bags of hops have lost potency over the course of a few months. I am on too tight of a budget to buy small bags of hops for each brew.

Hi and thanks for your post/reply. I have a large (12" diameter x 15" high) 800 micron mesh basket that I plan to use to contain pellet hops during my boil and hop stand. My system plumbing (the hoses) are 3/8" ID at the smallest points. I will run my pump to recirculate as you do. (I will also filter out hop material before using my plate chiller).

Could you help me with a few questions? 1)can you tell any difference in hop utilization compared to free-ranging, 2) what is the biggest hop load you have done, 3)have you had any problem with pump/hoses clogging for large hop loads, and 4)does the wort boil inside the spider? Thanks and cheers!

 

[Stand]

800 micron mesh is pretty wide open. How well does that contain the pellets? You getting a lot of particles coming through?

I switched back to a hop-spider after trying a few things. Trick I learned with my hop spider is that if it starts to clog you can clear the clogs really easily by just moving it briskly up and down in the kettle a few times and then lifting it out. It really gets bad when I put whirlflock in.

On hop utilization I can't say I've never noticed a difference, and I use a 200 micron basket. What I CAN say is that I have never detected a problem. I liked the beer I was making before with loose hops, and I like the same beer made with the hop spider. The difference is that I prefer the hop spider because the process is less complicated.

Here is the best (although not definitive) answer: http://brulosophy.com/2019/09/16/ke...pider-vs-loose-additions-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Dog House Brew]

I also have a V1 hop stopper. Used once, utter fail: it loaded up so badly with free swimming pellet mush that half the wort was still in the kettle when I finally showed mercy on the stalled pump and shut it down.

My concern with the much larger/different geometry V2: while it might work great under an electric element, setting that large an area on the kettle bottom might lead to scorching on a gas rig. I once tried setting my 6"x24" ss spider on the bottom of the BK for most of the boil only to find a matching scorched area...

Cheers!

Could it be the tri-axle dump load of hops you uses? I almost bought one of those years back.

 

[McKnuckle]

^ I agree with @Stand . There may be some difference, but as I'm not brewing two beers back to back with hop containment being the sole variable, I can't say. It all tastes good, and as expected, with no loss of bitterness or flavor. And it produces cleaner wort with no effort.

Besides, a 12"x15" hop container is huge! That's effectively like having them float freely in the boil. Most canisters are much narrower in diameter.

 

[Dog House Brew]

IMO if your going to use a spider, it needs to be the full diameter of the kettle. If not, the boil “bubbles” just move to the path of least resistance. I use a CFC, so those using an IM chiller, this could cause an issue. I used containment with dry 1 time. That beer was a total dud and lesson learned. Only loose pitch on dry for me.

 

[dochawk]

I use a plastic screen bag, sold sometime in the past as a liner for a 5 or 6 gallon bucket. I toss whole hop flowers in it into a 15 gallon boil, and let it float. Stir from time to time.

 

[Mike123]

^

Besides, a 12"x15" hop container is huge! That's effectively like having them float freely in the boil. Most canisters are much narrower in diameter.

The reason my hop container is so large is that it is also my grain basket. My plan is to try and use this same basket for both purposes, and yes the idea was it is like having the hops float freely in the boil, except that some hop trub is contained in the basket. I have not tried this yet, so we will see. I'll be back with a report on how this worked out.

 

[Yesfan]

I also use a hop spider. I've wondered if I just need a wider spider to get better hop extraction. My kettle is about 16" in diameter while my spider has a 6" diameter. A couple of times I didn't use the spider, it seemed my hoppier beers tasted better. The bad thing about that was my plate chiller would clog, even after I whirlpooled.

I have a false bottom for one of my kettles. I used it once which had decent results if I remember correctly. Spike (my kettles and fb) has recommended to me not to use their false bottom that way. I don't understand why that would matter, but least to say I've taken their advice.

So, I'm thinking of...

A: buy a false bottom that can sit flat on my Spike kettle (looking at NorCal for that) or getting a much wider "spider" like the mesh BIAB basket from Utah Diesel etc. This would keep my plate chiller from getting clogged.


B: Ditch the spider AND the plate chiller and go the Aussie route....no chill. I'm leaning more and more on using my kegs as fermenters if my Spike conical/flex are full. I have three hop strainers I use for keg hopping that could probably double as a trub filter when pouring the hot wort into the corny keg.

Obviously, I'll try B first since I already have everything I need.

 

[eric19312]

I’m using this 400 micron filter and am very satisfied. My typical hop schedule is 2 oz at 60, 2 oz at 5, 9 oz in whirlpool... I stir with large plastic spoon and lift the filter out of the wort every 5 min or so during the whirlpool. I notice quite a bit of the hop material is small enough to get through the filter. At end I lift the filter out of the wort, let it drain into kettle then sort of flip the mass of hops up and down in the filter to get achieve a light squeeze. I suppose I might be squeezing in some chlorophyll but beer is still good and I’m happy.

https://www.homebrewing.org/400-Micron-Stainless-Hop-Filter-with-Adjustable-Hook--6-x-14_p_7116.html

 

[Mike123]

I also use a hop spider. I've wondered if I just need a wider spider to get better hop extraction. My kettle is about 16" in diameter while my spider has a 6" diameter. A couple of times I didn't use the spider, it seemed my hoppier beers tasted better. The bad thing about that was my plate chiller would clog, even after I whirlpooled.

I have a false bottom for one of my kettles. I used it once which had decent results if I remember correctly. Spike (my kettles and fb) has recommended to me not to use their false bottom that way. I don't understand why that would matter, but least to say I've taken their advice.

So, I'm thinking of...

A: buy a false bottom that can sit flat on my Spike kettle (looking at NorCal for that) or getting a much wider "spider" like the mesh BIAB basket from Utah Diesel etc. This would keep my plate chiller from getting clogged.


B: Ditch the spider AND the plate chiller and go the Aussie route....no chill. I'm leaning more and more on using my kegs as fermenters if my Spike conical/flex are full. I have three hop strainers I use for keg hopping that could probably double as a trub filter when pouring the hot wort into the corny keg.

Obviously, I'll try B first since I already have everything I need.

Assuming we are talking about hop pellets......….I'm personally convinced that anything but free-range (hops directly in the wort) results in reduced hop utilization, of varying degrees depending on your setup. I think if you must use a spider then go as large as possible given your budget. Bigger spider, better hop utilization. In my case I am currently using NO spider. I recirculate at the end of the boil, and catch the hop trub at the return to my Keggle with a 400 micron basket. Then I route my wort to my plate chiller. So far this has worked like a charm, no problem clogging my pump or plumbing (3/8" ID) during the recirculation, and no clogging of the plate chiller. BTW, I have a false bottom made by NorCal. I'll post it on the For Sale forum in a few minutes. I've used it in the past for whole leaf hops and it works great. I don't know about the no chill method, seems hop utilization would suffer, but that is just my opinion.

 

[skarz]

Has anyone else on here noticed their beers coming out drastically less bitter than the estimated IBU would predict when using a hop-spider?

Last handful of brews I've been using a morebeer 200um hop spider to prevent plate-chiller clogging. All of them have turned out way less hoppy than the recipe would indicate. I do try to make sure the basket is as submerged as possible, and stir it around a bit with a spatula. Does anyone else have this issue?

Are you recirculating through the hop spider?

 

[wepeeler]

Has anyone else on here noticed their beers coming out drastically less bitter than the estimated IBU would predict when using a hop-spider?

Last handful of brews I've been using a morebeer 200um hop spider to prevent plate-chiller clogging. All of them have turned out way less hoppy than the recipe would indicate. I do try to make sure the basket is as submerged as possible, and stir it around a bit with a spatula. Does anyone else have this issue?

I had the same one. Used it for a Pilsner since I wanted none of the hop material in the fermenter. Kept getting clogged with break material. Tossed it in the trash after 1 use.

 

[day_trippr]

Are you recirculating through the hop spider?

I tried doing that. Spider quickly clogged up...

Cheers!