Political Threads / Religious Threads

[olllllo]

Some posts and threads are deleted. No one see it all, mods included. Sheer volume prevents any one individual to see everything deleted or not.

No one should ever expect to be called an ugly name.

That is something that we should be able to agree upon.

 

[adrock]

Evan argues that the HBT community should be self-policing in discussion threads, but time after time we see the community is not up to the task. Eventually words and phrases like "stupid" or "hysterical hyper-emotional ranting" crop up, and the discussion spirals downward.

While I can't deny that this happens at times in the middle of a heated argument, it's been my experience that this behavior often gets smacked down pretty effectively by other HBT members before it gets too ugly. That may not be self-policing in the way we've defined it, but the community is policing itself. It would be unfair to not point out that people occasionally call other people names when talking about autolysis, or SS vs AL, or any number of other things on this forum (albeit not as much). If that's the reasoning behind not discussing certain topics, then the community is not up to the task of discussing anything civilly.

I second Evan!'s point that this happens much more rarely than we're implying here..........I'd also have to agree with the earlier statement that this would become a non-issue after the presidential race whether action is taken or not. It's just a heated time, is all.

EDIT: Evan! wrote all my points before me, thus proving that he is indeed my Virginian doppelganger..........No you sickos, I said Virginian!

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

But, Evan, I don't believe it to be that hypothetical. I've seen discussion on other boards blow up with folks who had been friendly for a long time become bitter in all their dealings with each other on the boards, with the end result being the exodus of members who were valued for their knowledge around the central purpose of the board.

Like others here, I've been fooling around on discussion boards since they were single-modem BBSes. Over the years, I've seen hot-button issues damage a friendly message board, from SF&F, to writing, to amateur radio, to photography to others I've probably forgotten. In my experience, it's fairly common to happen. It may not be nor become an issue here, but I don't think the potential is quite as hypothetical as the antics displayed in Reefer Madness.

Rick

I've been a moderator on a board for artists, and I've been kicked off a board for artists too. Neither had relevance to the other, and this board bears little resemblence to both. This board is it's own entity, and IMO should be allowed to evolve independently.

 

[BierMuncher]

Completely .

Anyone have a good Chimay Blue clone?

 

[Rick_R]

It's up to the ones who are making the assertion that this is a problem to 'prove a positive' if their position is to be given credence.

Perhaps true, but if you fall off a twenty story building it doesn't hurt for the first nineteen floors; that doesn't mean you can't see it coming. While I have seen heated debate, I agree I've seen little (though some) bleed-over to date -- but I think the potential is there.

Hey, I'm not planning on leaving either way (unless tossed); just giving my opinion.

Rick

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Completely .

Anyone have a good Chimay Blue clone?

Nope, but while we're off topic....can I ask if anyone has a good Belgian Dubbel recipe? I've seen a few in the recipe database, but none that have received stellar reviews.

 

[BigKahuna]

ALSO Bit I finally made it to a big enough beer store to see Chimay beer in the fridge....I didn't get any because we were out of town for a few days....but I did finally see it!

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Perhaps true, but if you fall off a twenty story building it doesn't hurt for the first nineteen floors; that doesn't mean you can't see it coming. While I have seen heated debate, I agree I've seen little (though some) bleed-over to date -- but I think the potential is there.

Hey, I'm not planning on leaving either way (unless tossed); just giving my opinion.

Rick

That's true, but a bad analogy. In a forum one can avoid seeing the mess at any time with a single click

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Nope, but while we're off topic....can I ask if anyone has a good Belgian Dubbel recipe? I've seen a few in the recipe database, but none that have received stellar reviews.

It's kind of annoying when beer talk spills into a thread intended for politigous debate too ya' know!!

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Not sure if anyone has noticed...but as we continue to argue about this, the percentage of votes for "Yes" is shrinking.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Not sure if anyone has noticed...but as we continue to argue about this, the percentage of votes for "Yes" is shrinking.

But as was pointed out in another post, we must also take into account the opinions of the people who didn't vote......I reckon that's another 200 votes in favour of whatever MY opinion is!

 

[Fingers]

But as was pointed out in another post, we must also take into account the opinions of the people who didn't vote......I reckon that's another 200 votes in favour of whatever MY opinion is!

Isn't that what happened in 2000? Oops. We haven't started yet.

Disregard that last comment.

 

[Rick_R]

In a forum one can avoid seeing the mess at any time with a single click

Not if the splatter hits everywhere.

At this point, though, I think the horse is long dead; I'll end my participation in this thread with a statement that I think the mods have done a good job on this board to date in keeping everything under reasonable control. Regardless of the outcome of this discussion (i.e., what TxBrew decides) I'm sure they'll continue to make every effort in keeping us all happy participants.

*cou-suckup-gh*



Rick

 

[Evan!]

Perhaps true, but if you fall off a twenty story building it doesn't hurt for the first nineteen floors; that doesn't mean you can't see it coming. While I have seen heated debate, I agree I've seen little (though some) bleed-over to date -- but I think the potential is there.

Hey, I'm not planning on leaving either way (unless tossed); just giving my opinion.

Rick

The potential is always there, Rick. I know that as well as anyone does. And I'd hate to see it happen---but unlike your analogy, it's not like we'll be going along fine, fine, fine, then one day it all implodes and we're suddenly 4chan and everyone's like "how'd that happen, I never saw it coming!" My opinion is that, while it certainly has the potential to devolve past a point that is enjoyable, that devolution won't happen overnight and thus can be approached on a "play it by ear" basis. Keep it as it is (or, just designate a special politics subforum...even put it behind the paywall if you want), and if it gets bad, and passes a threshold that the community cannot handle itself, then I'll be the first person to jump on board with your "ban plan". But unlike jumping off of a building, the people who run this forum always retain their ability to hoist it back up if it gets too far. It's not like it's now or never. In six months, if it's really nasty around here, they could still just say BAM and ban politics and religion.

 

[shafferpilot]

I'm sure glad we can remain civil while discussing this...

Your choice of words speaks volumes about this topic. Evan argues that the HBT community should be self-policing in discussion threads, but time after time we see the community is not up to the task. Eventually words and phrases like "stupid" or "hysterical hyper-emotional ranting" crop up, and the discussion spirals downward.

Ever watch political debate in England? They call each other names, they throw stuff, they spit.... They're passionette about their beliefs. When they enter those debates, they expect to behave like that and people expect them to behave like that. It's ok to accept that. Yeah, I came to HBT to learn about brewing... but I come back to learn about life. Cut off the inspired arguments of politics and faith, you're cutting off the opportunity for each of us to learn about and understand each other.

 

[Philip1993]

Which again, is not supported by the poll results. Don't make assumptions, don't over-simplify. Adhere to the specific language of the poll when analyzing the data.

Some people voted yes because they don't read the discussions. Others voted yes *IF* these discussions were confined to their own dedicated (and in some cases hidden) forum. It appears to me that these people don't think political discussions benefit the forum, since they take pains not to read them, and would prefer they be kept out of plain sight. Clearly they constitute a less than ringing endorsement.

What was that you said about not making assumptions. The comment just before you made a handful of assumptions...

Hey, i like to talk about boobies and BBQ as much as the next guy

You missed my point. There are probably just as many people who find that just as undesirable as the political threads. And the accepted method of control for that has been to isolate and tell people to stay out or deal with what they see. And that seems like a perfectly reasonable solution to this issue as well.

But, Evan, I don't believe it to be that hypothetical. I've seen discussion on other boards blow up

And I've seen.... Like Evan said, anecdote vs. anecdote. We could volley all day.

And when was the last time you saw a verbal fight on HBO about boobs or BBQ?

It's not about the fights, it's about their impact on the desire of the members to hang out here. If you are worried that two people battling over politics is going to run good people off, why are you not also worried that adult material will? Very simple. One doesn't bother you, so it's not a problem. The other does bother you, and hence is a detriment to the whole existence of HBT. That's not reasonable logic.

Perhaps true, but if you fall off a twenty story building it doesn't hurt for the first nineteen floors; that doesn't mean you can't see it coming. While I have seen heated debate, I agree I've seen little (though some) bleed-over to date -- but I think the potential is there.

That's because the outcome of a 20 story fall is certain. As you acknowledged earlier, the downfall of a this whole BBS as result of political/religious threads is somewhat more nebulous.

Not sure if anyone has noticed...but as we continue to argue about this, the percentage of votes for "Yes" is shrinking.

I did. I was wondering if it was this thread or the day vs. evening thing. Tonights voted will be interesting.

I think the mods have done a good job on this board to date in keeping everything under reasonable control. Regardless of the outcome of this discussion (i.e., what TxBrew decides) I'm sure they'll continue to make every effort in keeping us all happy participants.

+1

*cou-suckup-gh*

+2

I'm pointing out that a statement was made and presented as fact. We do not have that fact.

Now you're just being argumentative. Which is one of the reasons battles break out here to begin with....

Any reasonable person knows what I means and what I was trying to say.

 

[olllllo]

Homework.
Everyone go here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/search.php?do=process&replyless=1&replylimit=0&exclude=30

and post as many time there as you have here.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

What was that you said about not making assumptions. The comment just before you made a handful of assumptions...

Yes, those would be counter-assumptions. You didn't expect to assume at me and not be assumed back, did you?

 

[Philip1993]

I'm sure glad we can remain civil while discussing this...

Eventually words and phrases like "stupid" or "hysterical hyper-emotional ranting" crop up, and the discussion spirals downward.

While I agree with your post I general, I would challenge you to explain why calling someone "immature" is acceptable, but calling them "hysterical" is not

 

[olllllo]

Now you're just being argumentative. Any reasonable person knows what I means and what I was trying to say. The rest (i.e. ollllo) are just trying to be difficult and argumentative. Which is one of the reasons battles break out here to begin with....

No not at all. I made no comment on your conclusions. I think you are now attributing things to me that are baseless.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

While I agree with your post I general, I would challenge you to explain why calling someone "immature" is acceptable, but calling them "hysterical" is not

Eventually words and phrases like "stupid," "immature" or "hysterical hyper-emotional ranting" crop up, and the discussion spirals downward.

Feel better?

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I guess 181 posts is enough on this thread for me to be satisfied with.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

I guess 181 posts is enough on this thread for me to be satisfied with.

Well sure, you'd have to be stupid, immature or possibly even hysterical to not be satisfied.

 

[Evan!]

Well sure, you'd have to be stupid, immature or possibly even hysterical to not be satisfied.

or just a *****edoily.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Well sure, you'd have to be stupid, immature or possibly even hysterical to not be satisfied.

Personally I was trying to go with rabid, maniacal and slightly disturbed. But what the hell, I can mix and match!

edit: damn!! 186 now!

 

[BigKahuna]

AGAIN.


SORRY!


How many words have been made from the base word ******? I think we (Mostly Evan!) are creating a complete culture of *****ology that should be wiki'd somewhere.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

AGAIN.


SORRY!


How many words have been made from the base word ******? I think we (Mostly Evan!) are creating a complete culture of *****ology that should be wiki'd somewhere.

I was thinking the same thing...maybe this should go right next to the Acronym section?

 

[NWernBrewer]

How many words have been made from the base word ******? I think we (Mostly Evan!) are creating a complete culture of *****ology that should be wiki'd somewhere.

Urban Dictionary has a listing of many, many variations of ******-whatever

 

[Philip1993]

Eventually words and phrases like "stupid," "immature" or "hysterical hyper-emotional ranting" crop up, and the discussion spirals downward.

Feel better?

I wasn't trying to justify my statement, just to point out the hypocrisy. In this very thread "immature" (or a derivative) has been used several times without anything being said.

If we're serious about trying to limit hard feelings and divisiveness in this forum, that needs to stop as well. If that type of label is permissible, then let's not get our boxers all in a bunch over "hysterical".

No not at all. I made no comment on your conclusions. I think you are now attributing things to me that are baseless.

Sorry olllllo, I'm not in the mood for a passive-aggressive competition today...

 

[Evan!]

Sorry olllllo, I'm not in the mood for a passive-aggressive competition today...

Awwww, damnit. There's nothing like a good ol' fashioned Passive-Aggressive-Off! I'll bring the beer, you guys bring the passive aggression, and we'll make a day of it!

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Sorry olllllo, I'm not in the mood for a passive-aggressive competition today...

Yeah!! Passive aggresive bullcrap is MY bag!! I can't have anyone trying to steal MY kung-fu!! :cross:

 

[BierMuncher]

..."play it by ear" basis. Keep it as it is (or, just designate a special politics subforum...even put it behind the paywall if you want), and if it gets bad, and passes a threshold that the community cannot handle itself, then I'll be the first person to jump on board with your "ban plan". ...

This was the original discussion amongst the mods.

• Keep the area distinct.
• For paying members only.
• Mod from a distance and intervene only when the big nasties get thrown about.
• Keep a zero tolerance for these discussions elsewhere.

Kind of like a back room...or red zone...if you will.

 

[Philip1993]

..."play it by ear" basis. Keep it as it is (or, just designate a special politics subforum...even put it behind the paywall if you want), and if it gets bad, and passes a threshold that the community cannot handle itself, then I'll be the first person to jump on board with your "ban plan".

This was the original discussion amongst the mods.

• Keep the area distinct.
• For paying members only.
• Mod from a distance and intervene only when the big nasties get thrown about.
• Keep a zero tolerance for these discussions elsewhere.

Sounds like a very workable compromise to me. Based on how another self-moderated board has evolved, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how much self-moderation takes place there. Getting a PM from a friend that says, "Why are you being such a **** to Mike?" generally tends to bring things back into perspective.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

This was the original discussion amongst the mods.

• Keep the area distinct.
• For paying members only.
• Mod from a distance and intervene only when the big nasties get thrown about.
• Keep a zero tolerance for these discussions elsewhere.

Kind of like a back room...or red zone...if you will.

Well, Ya coulda told us that before we went though all this and came to the same conclusion!!!

Oh! Wait!! I see what you guys did there!......good work!!

I love to be manipulated by smart people or exotic hookers......but preferably both. Where is Orfy? He sounds quite exotic!

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

This was the original discussion amongst the mods.

• Keep the area distinct.
• For paying members only.
• Mod from a distance and intervene only when the big nasties get thrown about.
• Keep a zero tolerance for these discussions elsewhere.

Kind of like a back room...or red zone...if you will.

Sounds good. That will keep moderation workload down, and keep divisive banter out of the public forums (aside from the AL vs SS threads of course). This should help keep HBT looking like the homebrew focused forum that it is, and not scare any potential members away.

 

[olllllo]

Sorry olllllo, I'm not in the mood for a passive-aggressive competition today...

Dude, you have reponded to ALL of my posts.
I've in no way attributed to you anything negative based on your words. It appears that you are doing that to yourself.

You don't even know my position on this because I have not posted it.

I will tell you that I was the mod that sugessted a politics only thread because I did not think they are General Chit Chat or Drunken.

 

[BigKahuna]

Awwww, damnit. There's nothing like a good ol' fashioned Passive-Aggressive-Off! I'll bring the beer, you guys bring the passive aggression, and we'll make a day of it!

If there is going to be an aggressive competition I want to be on the Active aggressive team.....Passive aggressive is for lazy people.

 

[Philip1993]

Dude, you have reponded to ALL of my posts.
I've in no way attributed to you anything negative based on your words. It appears that you are doing that to yourself.

You don't even know my position on this because I have not posted it.

Not biting...

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

If there is going to be an aggressive competition I want to be on the Active aggressive team.....Passive aggressive is for lazy people.

Fire away, I'll just lay down and take it while I question your sartorial elegance.

 

[BierMuncher]

...I will tell you that I was the mod that suggested a politics only thread because I did not think they are General Chit Chat or
Drunken.

I'll vouch for that. I was in the mod lodge cleaning the bathrooms when olllllo suggested it.