Police steal homebrew equipment

[Airborneguy]

Jesus Radicals... Oh god...

 

[TheBreweryUnderground]

Jesus Radicals... Oh god...

Personally I have a lot of issues with the site but I appreciate the part on police. I don't know if you've had any experience with the site or read the thing on police, but I wouldn't be too quick to judge things before you take a look at them. Also if you're not religious it still provides a valid argument as this part isn't overly jesus-y.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Here in New York we had a short span of time where officers were getting nailed with ethics violations and charged with corruption. After my initial, typical, liberal rhetoric I took a step back to look into whom brought these crooked cops to justice. It was the NYPD and the distric attorney. That's heartening, an instituation of public safety taking steps to self regulate and clean its own gutters.

Look, I know nothing about Chicago, for all I know 100% of police officers there are as crooked as the tower of Pisa. But the fact of the matter is, using both probable cause and a warrant, the police searched a residence thought to be housing violent protesters and found unknown liquids in a glass container. This container, appropriately, was removed from the residence for testing. Assuming that no explosives, illegal drugs or BMC are found in said equiptment, I would be rather shocked if he never got it back. The beer inside, however, I'm pretty sure is a goner. Pity.

I've met police on the east coast who were overzealous, I've met power trippers, and I've met guys who shouldnt guard a mall food court, never mind wear a blue uniform. But the fact of the matter is 90+% want to do their job, catch the bad guys, help the good guys, and return home with few or no puncture wounds or chemical burns on their person. A big glass jug of something that might go kaboom just might cause them to go strictly by the book.

So yeah, I think there are a lot better instances of police overstepping or abuse than this one.

Speaking of which, AB, can you help a brother out and spread the word to your precinct that being topless is legal in NYC? I'm serious that one just bugs me.

 

[Airborneguy]

I actually went back and read the whole article, and it's really not that bad. There's not much substantive in it, but it raises a few interesting points. The thing about policing is that the goal is different depending on the location. Yes, in Manhattan, one could make a decent argument that the police force is used to secure the interests of the illuminati against the unwashed masses. But now ask a good, hardworking resident of East NY what the police force is for and they will have a much different opinion. Policing is a necessary evil because there are genuinely bad people out there, downright evil bastards who need to be taken off the streets by someone. Who do you propose does the job? Or do you prefer that the weaker members of society just deal with the fact that these people are going to walk amongst them unchecked?

Speaking of which, AB, can you help a brother out and spread the word to your precinct that being topless is legal in NYC?

I like your personal cause de celebre. I'll be sure to spread the word once next week when I'm standing in front of my first roll call as a boss. I may be working in the West Village though, so my message will mostly fall on deaf ears.

 

[klyph]

so, the "non-thwarted" ones, the police just let happen, so seem legit? or....

What percentage of terrorist incidents involving explosives have had those explosives provided by federal agents or undercover informants? Almost all of them. They are manufacturing news headlines to justify the billions spent on "homeland security". The more the public thinks we are under constant threat of terrorist attack, the more likely they are to vote away their freedom, or justify the funding of useless agencies such as TSA.
The truth is, we are no more at risk of terrorism than we have ever been. There are no legitimate reasons for us to limit our constitutional protections. We are being conditioned in the same pattern that marks the beginning of many society's slide into tyranny and oppression. History repeats itself, and if you look for historical references of where the government is expanding it's powers and the media/propaganda themes, it's downright scary.

 

[dfc]

The cops did not steal anything. It was siezed as evidence. Once it is no longer evidence, it will be returned. Unfortunately, the brew will not be good as they would not know to keep at temp (even if they had control of that). It likely will sit on a shelf of a property room until it is returned. You have to treat visiting police like vampires, do not invite them in. Do not step outside. BTW, my brother is one.

Does he really drink blood?

 

[BrewKnurd]

What percentage of terrorist incidents involving explosives have had those explosives provided by federal agents or undercover informants? Almost all of them.

Do you have any references to support this claim? I'd be interested to see the data.

 

[klyph]

I encourage you to do your own research. I could give you references to support literally any wild claim (it is the internet after all), but you need to come to your own conclusions. I know it sounds like a cop out, but I'm serious, start with the media coverage of recent terrorist incidents involving explosives and "radicalized terrorists". Then find out who was supplying the explosives and doing the radicalization.
One example local to me was a man named Schaeffer Cox who was a militia group leader who toured the country giving speeches critical of the Federal Govt. Then, a man who was being prosecuted for crimes and trying to get a reduced sentence by working as an informant for the FBI showed up to join the militia and started saying they needed to kill people and that he knew where to get hand grenades. Even though the members told him that is not what they wanted, he desperately tried to get anyone in the group to "conspire" with him to commit crimes, because if he could do that, the Feds would lighten or drop the charges against him. In a meeting with Mr. Cox to arrange transportation, this informant shows up with a box of dummy grenades provided to him by the FBI and tries to give them to Mr. Cox. He refused, but was then swarmed by agents and arrested for conspiracy to possess explosives or some bull****. His trial is going on right now.
Anyway, it follows the same pattern. Man in trouble offers to help Feds bust up a "terror cell" to get reduced charges. Feds get a hard on for freedom and democracy so they give the guy a lump of clay marked C4 to go trolling for idiots to charge with "conspiracy". Problem is, there actually aren't that many people who want to use explosives to blow stuff up, and the ones that do don't have the mental capacity to carry it out without the aid of Federal Agents. Think about it, when traffic violations drop off, what do the police do? Set up speed traps and start ticketing for anything and everything to get the numbers back up. We've got the same thing going on since now there are a plethora of federal agencies (FBI, CIA, NSA, DHS) all doing the same job, so they're competing for funding. They need to demonstrate that THEIR agency is the one out catching the evil Jihad terror muslim radical terror boogey terrror man, so that they get more funding next year.

 

[BrewKnurd]

I encourage you to do your own research. I could give you references to support literally any wild claim (it is the internet after all), but you need to come to your own conclusions.

No, I'm not going to research your claim, because its your claim. If you want people to believe it, its your job to support it.

I know it sounds like a cop out,

It doesn't just sound like a cop out, it is a cop out. If you want to claim that the percentage is "almost all of them", then yes, its an obvious cop out to provide one example and say "do you're own research."

One example is nowhere close to "almost all of them", which is what you said. I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen, and I literally have no idea what percentage of the time its the case. But that's why I don't claim to know the percentage. Meanwhile, you claimed to know that its "almost all of them."

In regards to the Shaeffer Cox story, where does that version of events come from? Because if it is the Shaeffer Cox version of the events, you'll have to pardon me for being skeptical.

 

[BrewKnurd]

In a meeting with Mr. Cox to arrange transportation, this informant shows up with a box of dummy grenades provided to him by the FBI and tries to give them to Mr. Cox. He refused, but was then swarmed by agents and arrested for conspiracy to possess explosives or some bull****. His trial is going on right now.

So he wants nothing to do with the weapons but is seen on video inspecting them?

"Olson testified for the third day, answering questions from U.S. Attorney Steve Skrocki about Cox, Barney, Vernon and Vernon’s wife, shown in videotape examining pistols fitted with silencers as well as grenades, unaware that the canisters were inert. The Vernons are seen in one videotape inside Olson’s vehicle just before they were arrested.

Later the same day, Cox and Barney are seen examining the weapons when a man walks up to the window. Barney can be seen quickly closing the lid of the gun case. The man says he is the property owner and asks what they are doing there. He says he is asking because there are a whole “line of guys with bulletproof vests out there.”



And in some audio played in his trial, Cox outlines his 241 plan:

"Jurors this week have listened to recorded conversations in which Cox is heard detailing a “241” retaliation plan to kill two government agents for every person in his circle who is killed. The name “241” stood for “two-for-one.”"

 

[TheBreweryUnderground]

Check out the website Green is the New Red for info at least on mislabeling terrorists and what "entrapment" is.

Also for the record I think the homebrew part of the story is definitely secondary to much bigger issues, I don't think to highly of police especially in this instance but that part does make sense.

On the topic of police and government corruption check out this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...city_n_1278988.html#s720786&title=Ed_Vrdolyak
Rahm Emmanuel has been planning for these protests by enacting laws infringing on constitutional rights if anybody cares about those: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis.../19/outlawing-dissent-rahm-emanuel-new-regime

This whole thing may be a waste of tax payer dollars, but it's not the fault of protestors. The NATO meeting did not need to happen in downtown Chicago, they moved the G8 because of fears of protests and they could have done the same for NATO, and the main reasons we're in a huge deficit is because of the military industrial complex, defense contractors, bad banking practices, etc. all things protestors hope to change by demonstrating as their votes haven't done much at all, this is a part of the democratic process (I personally think "democracy" is completely unsustainable but that's another discussion). So if you at least operate in the worldview that the USA is a legitimate nation with a reasonable government (I don't personally, but I'm guessing many here do) then you should accept that these people have the right to assemble, which they did peacefully until the police violently intervened.

Also here's another article I read today that I appreciated: http://rabbibrant.com/2012/05/23/nato-in-chicago-a-meaningless-demonstration/

 

[Zuljin]

Heck yeah they stole is stuff.

Lets look at what happened.

A bunch of dudes with guns busted into his pad and took his stuff without his permission. That's stealing! If I busted up in your place with guns and started stealing your brew gear, you'd be like, Hey! Stop stealing my brew gear! And rightfully so.

Brew gear is not illegal.

 

[Airborneguy]

Have fun bros'.

 

[motobrewer]

I encourage you to do your own research. I could give you references to support literally any wild claim (it is the internet after all), but you need to come to your own conclusions. I know it sounds like a cop out, but I'm serious, start with the media coverage of recent terrorist incidents involving explosives and "radicalized terrorists". Then find out who was supplying the explosives and doing the radicalization.
One example local to me was a man named Schaeffer Cox who was a militia group leader who toured the country giving speeches critical of the Federal Govt. Then, a man who was being prosecuted for crimes and trying to get a reduced sentence by working as an informant for the FBI showed up to join the militia and started saying they needed to kill people and that he knew where to get hand grenades. Even though the members told him that is not what they wanted, he desperately tried to get anyone in the group to "conspire" with him to commit crimes, because if he could do that, the Feds would lighten or drop the charges against him. In a meeting with Mr. Cox to arrange transportation, this informant shows up with a box of dummy grenades provided to him by the FBI and tries to give them to Mr. Cox. He refused, but was then swarmed by agents and arrested for conspiracy to possess explosives or some bull****. His trial is going on right now.
Anyway, it follows the same pattern. Man in trouble offers to help Feds bust up a "terror cell" to get reduced charges. Feds get a hard on for freedom and democracy so they give the guy a lump of clay marked C4 to go trolling for idiots to charge with "conspiracy". Problem is, there actually aren't that many people who want to use explosives to blow stuff up, and the ones that do don't have the mental capacity to carry it out without the aid of Federal Agents. Think about it, when traffic violations drop off, what do the police do? Set up speed traps and start ticketing for anything and everything to get the numbers back up. We've got the same thing going on since now there are a plethora of federal agencies (FBI, CIA, NSA, DHS) all doing the same job, so they're competing for funding. They need to demonstrate that THEIR agency is the one out catching the evil Jihad terror muslim radical terror boogey terrror man, so that they get more funding next year.

well, that's like, your opinion, man!!

 

[klyph]

Exactly, anything I post here is an opinion. The idea that anyone can back up their claims with "proof from the internet" is absurd. I'm just stating an opinion based on what I've observed. "Most, if not all" will remain my opinion until I can be shown otherwise. Thus far, I haven't, so... neener.