Pliny the Elder with Amarillo?

[elpenoso]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1428428158.124035.jpg

 

[orangehero]

Thank elepnoso!

Thank you brother!

Can someone explain the dry hop regiment? Day 8 and day 11 per turn?

What is the line between BOIL START and BOIL END? Kettle something ...

It's fining agent.

 

[ultravista]

If I understand, the target size is 2015 gallons (65*31)?

I thought RR is a 4 vessel 50 BBL brew house?

 

[elpenoso]

Your sharp, this isn't from rr. They contracted out while they installed their new brewery.

 

[ultravista]

Ah, Firestone Walker.

 

[aprichman]

Is this recipe for a 1300 gallon mash that is sparged to get 2050 gallons?

 

[Ski12568]

I think I saw 1300 mash and 1100 sparge targeting 2015 boil vlume

 

[ultravista]

Yup, kettle volume is 2015. Chiller volume was 2050, WP volume 2031. 65.51 BBL or 2031 into the fermenter.

Somewhere, the brewer diluted w/134 gallons (see WHIRLPOOL PROGRAM line).

 

[Ski12568]

1.074 og

Looks like they diluted before whirlpool because the volume went up after the boil?

 

[robopp]

If I'm reading the brew sheet correctly, I'm surprised by the equal amounts of Gypsum and CaCl. 3# of each. You'd think the Gypsum would be higher (3X+) than the CaCl for a world class DIPA. I guess not!

 

[Btaz]

I did a lot of research for this recipe a few months ago. When I did my taste test between mine and the real thing it tasted like I didn't have enough Simcoe. Just glancing art this recipe proves it. I'll have to try it again.

 

[ultravista]

Now we'll have to work-out the AAU contribution for the 90, 45, and 30 minutes.

How do you work 1500 grams AA to AAU?

Notes from a Brewing Network show (me thinks) was approximately 48-50 AAU @ 90 minutes, 10-12 AAU @ 45 minutes, 10-12 AAU @ 30 minutes.

Where does one get Warrior and Amarillo extract?

Finally, what is an average extraction percentage for a pro brewery? Plugging this into Beersmith ... 94% extraction @ 2030 gallons with 4115 pounds of grain/sugar yields 1.070.

elpenoso - do you know the batch size?

 

[elpenoso]

It should be right around 60 bbl.

 

[ultravista]

1860 gallons @ 1.070 would be a yield of approximately 84% extraction. Wish mine that was high

 

[SphnxRnch]

For a 5.5 gallon batch, how many Warrior 5ml hopshots would you think appropriate? I used a calculator and it came out to 4, which seems really high. I was thinking 2 or 3 maybe.

 

[ultravista]

I'm trying to figure out the same thing, the hops in pounds and/or in extract.

 

[SphnxRnch]

Using this calculator:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/ibu-calculator/

and then this table:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/HopShot_Hop_Extract_Instructions.pdf

I figured for the Warrior bittering additions, that I need 10ml or two hopshots (I had it wrong first time...believe 2 is the way to go)

 

[Ski12568]

Using this calculator:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/ibu-calculator/

and then this table:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/HopShot_Hop_Extract_Instructions.pdf

I figured for the Warrior bittering additions, that I need 10ml or two hopshots (I had it wrong first time...believe 2 is the way to go)

That would put it way over the 70 IBU target at the top of the page. All the clones I see are way over 70 IBUs. I never had it to compare to another 70ish IBU beer.

 

[Ski12568]

So far this is what I came up with for a 5.5 gallon batch with 75% efficiency and no water to dilute:
93.5% (13lb 1.4oz ) Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1.6% (3.6oz ) Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)
4.9% (11oz) Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM)
0.50 oz Columbus [15.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min
0.25 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min
0.25 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 45.0 min
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days
0.50 oz Columbus [15.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days
0.50 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days
0.50 oz Columbus [15.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days
1.072 OG, 76 IBUs, 5.6 SRM
Mash temp I can't figure out because of the estimated FG I am getting in BeerSmith. 148F mash with US-05 gets to 1.009 (2.45) but their mash temp says 154F.
I am stuck on the hops but I feel it is very close. The only thing I can see that doesn't really jive is the extract for warrior and amarillo at 90 min.

 

[orangehero]

Mash temp I can't figure out because of the estimated FG I am getting in BeerSmith. 148F mash with US-05 gets to 1.009 (2.45) but their mash temp says 154F.

There's nothing to figure out, any software's estimated FG is pretty much useless. The attenuation figures from the yeast companies, which the software is based on, are there to give you only a rough idea of how well a particular strain attenuates.

Every brew system is different, and through experience you have to figure out the parameters to get what you are looking for.

If you aren't familiar with your system yet, I'd start with the recipe mash temp not what beersmith is telling you.

 

[SphnxRnch]

Scott Bertus looks to have this clone wired here: http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2013/08/pliny-elder-clone-30.html

 

[ultravista]

Ski12568 - how did you arrive at your numbers? What are the assumptions?

0.50 oz Columbus [15.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min
0.25 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min

This can't be right. The Zymurgy article calls for:

3.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 5 157.1 IBUs
0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 6 28.9 IBUs

 

[Btaz]

The 90 and 60 min additions are hop extract additions and not hop pellets... I believe

 

[ultravista]

90 and 45 are extract, the rest are pellet.

 

[ultravista]

Thus far, I am unable to find Warrior and Amarillo extract. Yakima Chief, Yakima Valley and Hop Tech say they don't carry either.

Where would RR or Firestone source this stuff?

It's tough to calculate the amount in pounds (at least for me) to scale it down.

Scott @ Bertus Brewery claims 48AAU at 90 minutes and 10AAU at 45min.

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/12/ipa-clone-series-pliny-elder.html?showComment=1354823971062#c2899066997108400612

I put the kettle hops from the Zymurgy recipe (as provided by Vinnie) into Excel to calculate the AA contributions and the results are nearly identical to Scott's.

Once we know the bittering charge, it's easy to sub other varieties.

 

[Ski12568]

Ski12568 - how did you arrive at your numbers? What are the assumptions?



0.50 oz Columbus [15.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min

0.25 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min



This can't be right. The Zymurgy article calls for:



3.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 5 157.1 IBUs

0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 6 28.9 IBUs

For the grains I just added them together to find the percentages.
For the hops I plugged all the known pounds in to BeerSmith and scaled down. The extract was a pure guess because I couldn't find anything reliable to scale it. I did read that 10ml of extract was equal to an oz. What really throws me off is the recipe says its 70 IBUs.
That synergy article is from 2009 I believe, this recipe is from Oct 2014.

 

[ultravista]

3/4 ounce of hops will not result in the bittering needed for this DIPA. The Zymurgy article is sound, meaning, it is the base we should use for formulating the updated recipe. Interestingly, Vinnie has opted for a higher mash temperature and ditched the CaraPils.

In an email exchange with him last year, he said exactly the same thing. You can forego the CaraPils and mash a few degrees higher ...

 

[Ski12568]

What do you think the IBUs are? Is 70 IBU at the top of the recipe the total not including the 20 min whirlpool additions?

Heads up: I just started brewing consistently the end of last year and have only been doing it 3 years total. I read as much as I can but I am still learning. I have never scaled a recipe this big.

 

[ultravista]

Yeah, that 70 IBU is whacky any way you look at it. I've had Pliny, and it's a hop monster. I regularly brew it with 8-9 ounces in the kettle and 4-5 dry hop.

 

[ultravista]

Can someone work out the 1500 and 450 grams of extract to pounds?