Pliny the Elder recipe questions

[cercueil]

This will be my next brew..It's only my second all grain so I'm naming it Pliny Junior because I figure I will get bad efficiency. I actually never had it before because I live in NJ but once Zymurgy had it as #1 I figured I guess I'll brew it since I can't get it. I know it won't be anywhere close but as long as its a good IPA I'll be happy.

 

[michael.berta]

How much money are you spending on hops for 5 gallons of a Pliny clone. The clone recipe in Brewing Classic Styles has something like several pounds of hops for a 5 gallon batch...

 

[paradoc]

How much water did you use in total for this one? I did this recipe a couple of weeks ago: I used 8 gallons but collected less than 4 (90 minute boil). I reckon the hops must have soaked up at least a gallon.

I started the boil with 8 gallons, and had 6 gallons into the fermenter. I typically lose about 1.25-1.5 gallons from the boil, so I had about 1/2 gallon to hop loses.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

How much money are you spending on hops for 5 gallons of a Pliny clone. The clone recipe in Brewing Classic Styles has something like several pounds of hops for a 5 gallon batch...

I think I paid 55-60 bones for all the hops in mine. I used little over a pound, 18oz's or so.

I don't know about you guys but mine came out pretty brutal. I brewed it about 4 months ago and it's just starting to settle down. Didn't come out smooth like it does at Russian River. Still damn good though.

 

[cercueil]

I don't mind using hops to bitter a beer but do any of you think that dry hopping is worth it? From what I've read it just adds aroma. While I agree that smelling a beer is great would I want to spend $10-$20 extra to dry hop the beer? Has anyone compared the same recipe of a regular IPA and one that was dry hopped. Just wondering if the extra expense is worth it?

 

[zman]

I have a question regarding the dry hoping aspect of the recipe? Is it ok to leave the hops added for the entire time? The Hop schedule calls for different hops at different intervals. I do not have to remove the first set of dry hops before adding the next in line do I?

 

[bdnoona]

I don't mind using hops to bitter a beer but do any of you think that dry hopping is worth it? From what I've read it just adds aroma. While I agree that smelling a beer is great would I want to spend $10-$20 extra to dry hop the beer? Has anyone compared the same recipe of a regular IPA and one that was dry hopped. Just wondering if the extra expense is worth it?

I don't think dry hopping only effects the smell of the brew. I could be wrong here, but I think that referring to it as "hop aroma" is just a way of suggesting that it doesn't add any bitterness to the brew, because the hops must be boiled in the wort to add bitterness. So whatever flavor is imparted via dry hopping is referred to as "aroma". I have noticed a huge difference when dry hopping vs not. I dry hop all my IPA's and APA's as a result, but then again I'm a hophead.

 

[bdnoona]

I have a question regarding the dry hoping aspect of the recipe? Is it ok to leave the hops added for the entire time? The Hop schedule calls for different hops at different intervals. I do not have to remove the first set of dry hops before adding the next in line do I?

It's been a while since I read this article, but I think Vinny describes leaving them in the whole time. Actually I want to say that they even blow CO2 into the fermenters to stir up the hops that have fallen out of suspension. I could be making that up, but I remember something like that. I think they just dump the yeast, but leave all the hops in the tank.

 

[bdnoona]

I think I paid 55-60 bones for all the hops in mine. I used little over a pound, 18oz's or so.

I don't know about you guys but mine came out pretty brutal. I brewed it about 4 months ago and it's just starting to settle down. Didn't come out smooth like it does at Russian River. Still damn good though.

I'm brewing 10G of this on 8/30. I'm following the recipe Vinny put in the last Zymurgy though, which only uses 12.5 oz per 5 gallon batch. My total hop cost is: $48 for 10G, or $24 for 5G. You should start buying in bulk, especially if you're going to be making big IIPA's like this.

 

[cercueil]

I don't think dry hopping only effects the smell of the brew. I could be wrong here, but I think that referring to it as "hop aroma" is just a way of suggesting that it doesn't add any bitterness to the brew, because the hops must be boiled in the wort to add bitterness. So whatever flavor is imparted via dry hopping is referred to as "aroma". I have noticed a huge difference when dry hopping vs not. I dry hop all my IPA's and APA's as a result, but then again I'm a hophead.

Thanks for this comment. I have only made one other IPA and I did dry hop it but I dont know the difference versus non-dry hopping. I love hops anyway so maybe the next time I'll buy more. For this Pliny clone I'm only doing 1 round of dry hops.

 

[uwjester]

Just a note for anyone doing this recipe with leaf hops... Those things will soak up a whole bunch of your wort. I came in about a gallon short when I brewed this recipe. I can account for some of it with extra boil off, but not all of it. I use leaf hops with the biermuncher style hop-bag. I think next time I try a recipe that has this much hops, I'll probably presoak my hops so I don't lose as much tasty beer. Either that, or use pellet hops.

 

[bdnoona]

I'm using all pellets for this reason specifically. 12.5 or more ounces of whole leaf hops would result in a huge amount of hop-loss.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

I'm brewing 10G of this on 8/30. I'm following the recipe Vinny put in the last Zymurgy though, which only uses 12.5 oz per 5 gallon batch. My total hop cost is: $48 for 10G, or $24 for 5G. You should start buying in bulk, especially if you're going to be making big IIPA's like this.

yeah no kidding. I probably could have bought 3-4 lbs for what I paid. I doubt that I will make this again though, but I do like a big IIPA. I'll be buying in bulk soon.

 

[bdnoona]

yeah no kidding. I probably could have bought 3-4 lbs for what I paid. I doubt that I will make this again though, but I do like a big IIPA. I'll be buying in bulk soon.

I plan to have this as a regular on tap at my place, until (if ever) they distribute in IL. SOOOOO GOOOOD!!!

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

I plan to have this as a regular on tap at my place, until (if ever) they distribute in IL. SOOOOO GOOOOD!!!

It is a great beer, I was fortunate enough to make it over to Russian River this last weekend. My Sister in Law got Married in Petaluma, So I was able to get up to Santa Rosa. I had a couple Blind Pigs while I was there and I think I might actually like it more than Pliney. Both are outstanding though. Then I had some of my Pliney Clone when I got home and realized that it's not even close.

 

[bdnoona]

It is a great beer, I was fortunate enough to make it over to Russian River this last weekend. My Sister in Law got Married in Petaluma, So I was able to get up to Santa Rosa. I had a couple Blind Pigs while I was there and I think I might actually like it more than Pliney. Both are outstanding though. Then I had some of my Pliney Clone when I got home and realized that it's not even close.

You followed a different recipe though, right? How did it compare to the one Vinny released in Zymurgy (2-row, w/ small amounts of crystal, carapils and corn sugar, columbus, centennial and simcoe)?

 

[BrewMeister49]

where do I get simcoe hops if all my LHBS dont carry them?

 

[Rick500]

brewmasterswarehouse.com
austinhomebrew.com
nikobrew.com

 

[Woolseal]

Austin Homebrew just had their Pliny Kit on sale. Normally over 80 bucks but the sale took off $23. All grain, no extract. Sorry, but that was yesterday.

They (Russian River) don't really distribute it because a)they only make so much of it and can't keep up with demand and b)they recommend on the bottle to keep it cold. Kinda snobby about it too. If you are ever in the area, definitely try their other beers. It's worth the trip.

 

[weremichael]

They (Russian River) don't really distribute it because a)they only make so much of it and can't keep up with demand and b)they recommend on the bottle to keep it cold. Kinda snobby about it too. If you are ever in the area, definitely try their other beers. It's worth the trip.

I wouldn't say snobby; I would say persnickety. I wish more breweries were concerned with quality control of beers once they've left their brewery. I really hate seeing beers that have no business being warm, collecting dust in a sunlit front of a store.

 

[Synovia]

I don't mind using hops to bitter a beer but do any of you think that dry hopping is worth it? From what I've read it just adds aroma. While I agree that smelling a beer is great would I want to spend $10-$20 extra to dry hop the beer? Has anyone compared the same recipe of a regular IPA and one that was dry hopped. Just wondering if the extra expense is worth it?

I kind of agree, it seems kind of silly to dry hop a beer that is going to take multiple months to age out anyways. At that point, it seems like you've wasted most of your dryhopping.

Maybe it would be a better idea to bulk age for a couple months, and then dry hop?

 

[bdnoona]

I kind of agree, it seems kind of silly to dry hop a beer that is going to take multiple months to age out anyways. At that point, it seems like you've wasted most of your dryhopping.

Maybe it would be a better idea to bulk age for a couple months, and then dry hop?

Why would you bulk age an IIPA? You're supposed to consume them fresh. It says so right on Pliny's label in particular.

 

[humann_brewing]

What water profiles are people going for on this beer?

I got the AHS kit on Tuesday and am thinking something along the lines of what was mentioned in this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/target-water-profile-pliny-elder-clone-128923/

like CA: 100, MG: 16, NA: 16, SO4: 350, CL: 50, HCO3: 50

 

[Synovia]

Why would you bulk age an IIPA? You're supposed to consume them fresh. It says so right on Pliny's label in particular.

Aren't most high alchohol/high FG beers supposed to be aged? How do all the yeast byproducts get cleaned up in something like that.

 

[humann_brewing]

Aren't most high alchohol/high FG beers supposed to be aged? How do all the yeast byproducts get cleaned up in something like that.

It's hard to make it out from this picture but the label is full of phrases that basically lead to not letting the beer age because the hops need to stay fresh.

 

[Synovia]

It's hard to make it out from this picture but the label is full of phrases that basically lead to not letting the beer age because the hops need to stay fresh.

Right, but thats most likely due to the dry hopping. My point was that maybe these sorts of beers should be bulk aged and THEN dry hopped.

 

[humann_brewing]

Right, but thats most likely due to the dry hopping. My point was that maybe these sorts of beers should be bulk aged and THEN dry hopped.

I see what you mean, sorry didn't read carefully enough. That is a good thought. I think the theory is that there is so much hop explosion that it over powers any green beer taste you will get.

But it may be a good experiment.

 

[bdnoona]

Right, but thats most likely due to the dry hopping. My point was that maybe these sorts of beers should be bulk aged and THEN dry hopped.

Hop additions to the boil also mellow and lose "freshness" as they age. I've had aged IIPA's (off the store shelves) and they are no where near as hoppy as when it is first brewed. Even hop bitterness fades as they age. With 9 ounces of hops going into the kettle on this one, I'm not going to age it and let that hop wallop fade before dry hopping and drinking it.:rockin:

Also Pliny is not that big of a beer at only 8%. I'm drinking a Pisgah Vortex I (IIPA) clone right now that is 11.3%, and it's just under seven weeks since brewing. I don't taste off flavors or anything like that, and this hasn't been bulk aged for months (only weeks). I imagine for the Vortex, and likewise Pliny, the massive amount of hops hide a lot of the green-ness of the brew.

 

[zman]

I am going to do this brew this weekend and I have a couple of questions.

I got Wyeat American Ale II as I thought that was what the recipe called for in Zymurgy. I see that people used White Labs California Common. Does it make a huge difference to use American Ale or should I go back to the LHBS after work and see if I can exchange it.

How big of a starter are people doing? I have a 1000ml flask and I have a 1/2 gallon growler. I also have a stir plate. I actually have 2 Wyeast American Ale pkgs but the mfr date of the one at the house is January 09. Should I use both in the starter or is it safe to use just the newer one?

TIA

Zman

 

[bdnoona]

Check out Mr. Malty's yeast pitching calculator if you haven't before. I would use one smack pack on the stir plate, if I were you. Does the growler work on the stir plate? I think it calls for 1300ml starter on a stir plate. http://www.mrmalty.com/

And if you are trying to get as close as possible to the recipe, I'd get the yeast it calls for. But either way, it's going to make an awesome beer.