Plate Chiller not working?

[doublej]

Right after boil last night used my new 20 plate Duda chiller. Water temp was 68, going full blast. Wort was being pumped with Chugger pump. I had to have the wort barely trickling to get 70. anything more and temp would jump way up....is this right? i was filling the fermenter at about 1/2 gallon per 15 min...

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Water is hooked up backwards. Been there, done that.

MC

 

[Kyled93]

Right after boil last night used my new 20 plate Duda chiller. Water temp was 68, going full blast. Wort was being pumped with Chugger pump. I had to have the wort barely trickling to get 70. anything more and temp would jump way up....is this right? i was filling the fermenter at about 1/2 gallon per 15 min...

I agree with Misplaced. Make sure your using the plate chiller as a counter flow. The other item I would suggest is to slow the city water flow down instead of full blast. The idea is to get as much heat transfer as possible. So if you slow the city water down, you probably would be able to speed up the March pump just a bit.

I just brewed yesterday morning. The only difference in my system is I have to knock out with city then recirculate ice to get the wort down to pitching temp. It extremely rare that I knock out directly from boiling to my fermenter. Florida's ground temp is 80+.

 

[wilserbrewer]

The other item I would suggest is to slow the city water flow down instead of full blast. The idea is to get as much heat transfer as possible. So if you slow the city water down, you probably would be able to speed up the March pump just a bit.

This seems odd to me? I would think vice versa, the more flow on the city water, the cooler the wort exit temp will be.

Also, w/ a city water temp of 68 degrees, in theory it will be difficult to get very close to 68, almost impossible to get to 68, and impossible to get below 68 of course. Perhaps you are being overly optimistic and or unrealistic trying to chill to 70 w/ 68 degree tap water. Don't have a plate chiller, just a hunch.

 

[day_trippr]

This seems odd to me? I would think vice versa, the more flow on the city water, the cooler the wort exit temp will be.

You would be correct.

Cheers!

 

[doublej]

Water is hooked up backwards. Been there, done that.

MC

Gonna try it again tonight with water and double check the direction of wort/water but it has garden hose connections so i think it was going the right way..will also mess around with flow of water i guess..

 

[Bobby_M]

How cold did you think the wort should be coming out? I think 70F with 68F coolant is about what I would expect.

 

[doublej]

How cold did you think the wort should be coming out? I think 70F with 68F coolant is about what I would expect.

Totally agree with the temp...2 degrees within water temp im happy with...was just gonna take all night at the trickle i had it flowing at...1/2 gallon every 15 min was gonna take me several hours to cool...i was expected faster than that.

 

[Kyled93]

You would be correct.

Cheers!

You guys are going to have to explain this one too me. The idea on a plate chiller is surface area and flow. If the flow is to fast you will waste water and prolong the cooling process. Check out the wort cooling chart for design flows at duda diesel's site. Ideally it depends on the type chiller you have...

http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=+beer++wort++chiller&i=beerchillers

Am I wrong with my assumptions?

 

[Bobby_M]

You guys are going to have to explain this one too me. The idea on a plate chiller is surface area and flow. If the flow is to fast you will waste water and prolong the cooling process. Check out the wort cooling chart for design flows at duda diesel's site. Ideally it depends on the type chiller you have...

http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=+beer++wort++chiller&i=beerchillers

Am I wrong with my assumptions?

Sure, you'll use more water if you flow faster but not prolong the cooling process. The faster you run the cooling water, the higher overall delta you maintain and therefore the faster cooling.

 

[day_trippr]

Sure, you'll use more water if you flow faster but not prolong the cooling process. The faster you run the cooling water, the higher overall delta you maintain and therefore the faster cooling.

Exactly correct.

To me, a plate chiller's primary function is to chill wort to pitching temperature as quickly as possible. Under ideal conditions, reaching the maximum wort flow possible while achieving the primary function is the way to go. If that means the water flow is maxxed out as well, that's fine with me...

Cheers!

 

[doublej]

So i haven't been able to connect everything back up but checked water temp again toady - 67F. Also checked flow rate of water at full open at it is a little over 6 gpm. haven't been able to check the flow rate i was using for the wort but it was barely open. Would a clog in the chiller cause this, having to have the wort trickling through?

 

[mattd2]

The other thing that effects a plate chiller is how it is orientated, certain ways you short cicuit the flow, i.e. you are not actually flowing through all the plates of the full width. Any chance you can take a photo of your setup so we can advise on this?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Just guessing here, but I think you are expecting too much of the chiller. IMO you need cooler chilling water. 68 degree tap water can only chill so low. Very difficult to approach the temperature of the tap / chilling water.

 

[doublej]

The other thing that effects a plate chiller is how it is orientated, certain ways you short cicuit the flow, i.e. you are not actually flowing through all the plates of the full width. Any chance you can take a photo of your setup so we can advise on this?

this is my previous chiller - used once and sold b/c i wanted NPT threads instead of barbs. my setup is oriented just like this. pump is below so it flows up to the chiller, garden hoses connected directly. oddly enough the one time used this, gravity feeding it worked great...maybe i shouldn't have sold!! haha

 

[mattd2]

I am going to guess that the wort is not fulling the heat exchanger, with it going is/out the ports located at the bottom it can potentially leave an air pocket in the top of the chiller, i.e. you are only using/filling the bottom 1/3 of your chiller.
Try use it standing on the short edge so the wort flows up from the bottom port to the top, water top to bottom.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Also, make sure have the proper orientation for the chiller.

FWIW, I can get from near-boil to 73F, using my well water at 69F, shown (left is well water input temp, right is wort output temp).

MC

 

[doublej]

thanks...ill give the orientation a try when i test it...logic makes perfect sense to me..

 

[CS223]

Right after boil last night used my new 20 plate Duda chiller. Water temp was 68, going full blast. Wort was being pumped with Chugger pump. I had to have the wort barely trickling to get 70. anything more and temp would jump way up....is this right? i was filling the fermenter at about 1/2 gallon per 15 min...

What you describe should be expected. I don't know about everyone else but I recirculate the wort through the plate chiller back into the kettle until it is chilled then pump it into the fermentor. I thought that was understood based on the plate chiller chart given the volume of wort and the time.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I don't know about everyone else but I recirculate the wort through the plate chiller back into the kettle until it is chilled then pump it into the fermentor. I thought that was understood based on the plate chiller chart given the volume of wort and the time.

It's certainly ONE way of doing it, and a valid one too. However, you have to understand that the thermal mass of the kettle will come into play when you do this. With a 20# kettle weight, it will add some time to the overall cooling time.

MC

 

[doublej]

asking b/c i don't know...what is the advantage of sending the cooled wort back to the kettle instead of direclty into the fermenter?

 

[mattd2]

If you can not get it down to pitching with one pass through the plate you can put it back in the pot and then pass the cooler wort throuugh untill you get down to pitching temp. Other advantages are you can whirlpool in the pot while doing this, disadvantages are you will take longer to cool to the same temp as the delta T drops when the pot temp drops.

 

[CS223]

It's certainly ONE way of doing it, and a valid one too. However, you have to understand that the thermal mass of the kettle will come into play when you do this. With a 20# kettle weight, it will add some time to the overall cooling time.

MC

I guess I need to try it straight into the fermentor once I come up with a way to throttle the flow.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I guess I need to try it straight into the fermentor once I come up with a way to throttle the flow.

A ball valve on the output side the pump would do it. That's what I use.

MC

 

[Golddiggie]

What you describe should be expected. I don't know about everyone else but I recirculate the wort through the plate chiller back into the kettle until it is chilled then pump it into the fermentor. I thought that was understood based on the plate chiller chart given the volume of wort and the time.

I recirculate the wort through the plate chiller back into the keggle until it hits a point where I'm happy running it into the fermenter (through the chiller again).

I would check the ID of the hose feeding the chill water. Smaller ID will give you less flow, and extend the chill time significantly. I changed to a 3/4" ID hose for yesterday's brew day (chilling) and saw a significant improvement in chill time over the previous batch (with a 3/8" ID hose connected to the faucet).

I have a ball valve on the output side of the pump too. That's more often used during the boil, so that I can run boiling wort through the chiller to sanitize it. Otherwise air bubbles get caught in the pump and cause issues. Setting the output valve to 1/2 open resolves that issue. Once the boil is finished, all valves (in the circuit) are wide open.

BTW, the temperature of my wort dropped to under 100F in not even two minutes yesterday. As normal, dropping to water temp took longer. Still, got it to about 64F far faster than the previous batch (less than half the time).

For reference, I'm using the B3-23A 40 Plate Beer Wort Garden Hose Chiller, with NPT fittings wort side (have camlock QD's there). Since I'm currently getting 6.75-7 gallons out of primary, with occasional ~10 gallon batches and larger ones planned, it made sense to get the larger chiller.