Pittsburgh/Western PA Group Buy #5

[brewguyver]

I noticed that there is an option to have the grains milled for $0.05. p/lb on PDF. Is that an option for me? If so, how do I indicate that on the order form?

and canada malting wheat malt be added to the splits?

We wouldn't be able to have the grain milled by the vendor - they'd have to mill a full sack and it'd be difficult to make sure that sack wasn't accidentally given to someone else.

If you remind folks close to pick-up day, I'm sure someone can mill a reasonable amount of grain for you.

 

[brewguyver]

I'm in (first time)! email sent.

Is this a free-for-all on splitting sacks? Where do we buy from? (I guess more will come via email)

Mostly a free-for-all and first come first serve. However, only the closed splits will be purchased - open splits will roll to the next order. This goes for all splits. So it makes sense to coordinate with other folks, vs ordering and crossing your fingers.

 

[claphamsa]

FYI, NCM just emailed me that they are no longer doing the bulk pricing. to homebrewers. its now the flat fee -1.5 per bag if you are over 30. just an FYI.

 

[argyle]

If you remind folks close to pick-up day, I'm sure someone can mill a reasonable amount of grain for you.

That would be helpful. Guess I'll just post a request closer to the time since I don't know anyone.

 

[brewguyver]

That would be helpful. Guess I'll just post a request closer to the time since I don't know anyone.

Good plan - worst case I can bring my mill.

 

[ButcherBoy]

Mostly a free-for-all and first come first serve. However, only the closed splits will be purchased - open splits will roll to the next order. This goes for all splits. So it makes sense to coordinate with other folks, vs ordering and crossing your fingers.

Ha, I just order and cross my fingers. That's why there is a special roast split on this buy, still waiting for someone to help me complete that split, for the last 2 buys. Doesn't anyone else use that in their brown ales?

 

[Weezy]

Can we start another Maris Otter and pale malt?

(and I got in on the special roast...but we're still short)

 

[PJM]

FYI, NCM just emailed me that they are no longer doing the bulk pricing. to homebrewers. its now the flat fee -1.5 per bag if you are over 30. just an FYI.

What does this mean and how does it affect us?

 

[ekoostikadam]

What does this mean and how does it affect us?

I'd really like an answer to this as well.

 

[CidahMastah]

Hey guys - Regarding the change in pricing from NCM:

I wanted to post this up here in effort to have each group buy participant thinking about how they are spending their money. I would like to send a message to NCM for the arbitrary price change. However I can't do it alone, nor do I have the time to coordinate an effort like this. I also can't ask you all to boycott, because I know that many can't meet the price locally.

I have created this thread to post comments if you want to attempt to hash out your thoughts on NCM's business decision.

Best,

 

[TNTgill]

Well shoot...I closed out several open splits and a couple full bags on my first bulk buy and it looks like this won't happen. What do we do know?

 

[TheHunk]

Kyle are our buys set up as a business? If so it looks like our prices won't change but if not the prices are going up.

 

[PJM]

Yeah, CidahMastah is talking about a 20% increase. I looked at the price sheet he attached to his thread and it was WAY more than a 20% increase in price over what we paid on the last buy. For instance, Briess 5298 2 Row was $31 per bag on the last buy and the "NEW" price on the updated sheet from CidahMastah is $75.22. I'm hoping that this increase will not apply to us.

How about it Kyle, have you received anything from CMG indicating that they are changing the pricing on us?

 

[ekoostikadam]

Here is the link to the new price sheet. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/56584482/Homebrew Catalog 1-11-13.pdf

 

[ekoostikadam]

It looks like what we need to do is talk to a local homebrew supply shop and pay them like 200 dollars to order it for us.

 

[brewguyver]

Before we get too concerned about the folks jumping in about pricing, let me do a little more follow up. I'd already gotten the heads up from the TRUB folks an a few others via PM, and i'm aware of the issues. If the prices aren't as advertised, I'm not committing us to an order.

I'll send out an email update to those of you who are registered for the buy, rather than bringing it up on the forums for public consumption.

Also along those lines, we filled the first pallet and I temporarily put the sheet into read-only mode. I'll roll out a part B with the open splits once I sort out this issue.

 

[PJM]

Thanks Kyle and wow, that pallet filled quickly.

 

[CidahMastah]

Yeah, CidahMastah is talking about a 20% increase. I looked at the price sheet he attached to his thread and it was WAY more than a 20% increase in price over what we paid on the last buy. For instance, Briess 5298 2 Row was $31 per bag on the last buy and the "NEW" price on the updated sheet from CidahMastah is $75.22. I'm hoping that this increase will not apply to us.

How about it Kyle, have you received anything from CMG indicating that they are changing the pricing on us?

Unfortunately this will affect you all if you use NCM and you aren't receiving shipment via a federally licensed brewery establishment with a TIN #.

We were about to place an order and I personally called up NCM. The idea that your buy is different from any other home brew account buy is just silly (but I did the same thing you did, once I heard I needed to call and check for myself so I encourage you to do the same). I understand that perhaps now you want to keep it discrete but the damage has been done.

A couple ways around it are to get your order delivered to a brewery, get a new supplier, etc.

Yes 20% is on the low end of the increases. Many are much higher.

 

[fredtheseal]

Unfortunately this will affect you all if you use NCM and you aren't receiving shipment via a federally licensed brewery establishment with a TIN #.

By that logic how can they distinguish between a homebrew shop and anybody else who has a business account with them? LHBSs don't have a federal brewery license so would the markup apply to them? If it did, I would expect to see a lot of stores stop selling Briess.

I think there are still open questions that can only be answered by NCM.

 

[CidahMastah]

I am not sure how the tax id's identify businesses. Again I spoke with the low level representative, not a manager, at NCM. What I do know is that you can't get a delivery at the old pricing unless the business is brewing affiliated.

I didn't say home brewing stores can't buy from them. A home brew store would have a commercial account, not a home brewer grandfathered in account like many of us have been using to buy.

Feel free to call them and clear up the details. I would appreciate knowing any additional details you may come across.

 

[brewguyver]

Technically Country Malts sells *exclusively* to breweries - they have a non-brewery wing that caters exclusively to LHBS. They recently went through an internal systems overhaul that allows the LHBS and Brewery sides of the business a better way to track their customers - it looks like this is the next step.

The TIN# is a federal tax id. I believe there is a separate ID you get from the ATF that approves the manufacture and sale of alcoholic beverages.

Cidah - I understand where you're coming from, but I also understand that most manufacturers and wholesalers will not sell direct to consumer under any circumstances. Its just not how the supply chain works. Cutting out the middle man also hurts other businesses in the supply chain if it is done too aggressively. So while I agree this sucks, i'm not nearly as surprised as other folks are.

Worst case, I've had discussions with an LHBS about bulk buying in the past. We can always pursue that if needed.

 

[CidahMastah]

brewguyver - I am not surprised either. I sort of saw this coming (I talk about that a bit in the other thread I started). As I said in that thread, it has been a heck of a ride and I am glad I have been part of it for several years. Without that I would have never built such an awesome brew system.

They also require a TTB # (I think this is the ATF number you are referencing). You can see the application on post one of the thread I started in all of this.

 

[joyceman]

Damn, I just switched over to AG at the beginning of the year and was interested in getting involved in a group buy this time around.

Country Wines in the North Hills sells a 50 lb sack for $50. Thats the only local place I know unless Triangle down in the Strip is still in business.

 

[TNTgill]

A little off topic but I am very new to PGH and wondered what everyone did for their brewing water? In Tennessee I just used RO and added minerals back to it but didn't know how good the water is here and what treatments are necessary.

 

[brewguyver]

Damn, I just switched over to AG at the beginning of the year and was interested in getting involved in a group buy this time around.

Country Wines in the North Hills sells a 50 lb sack for $50. Thats the only local place I know unless Triangle down in the Strip is still in business.

I'm pretty sure triangle is closed. Make sure to give plenty of business to South Hills Brewing and Country Wines - they're good guys.

A little off topic but I am very new to PGH and wondered what everyone did for their brewing water? In Tennessee I just used RO and added minerals back to it but didn't know how good the water is here and what treatments are necessary.

I use tap water for beer, but the 5 gal jugs of spring water for wine. The beer seems to come out pretty well. Then again I still have bad temp control, so you might not want to trust me

 

[argyle]

I think the region has pretty good LHBSs. There is a pretty good one out my way, he just started last fall and is always increasing his inventory.

Just one question. Does anyone know what happend to Ben's Homebrew in Tarentum or Ben for that matter? I used to drive over an hour to get my supplies there. His Youtube videos were always good and informative and the Homebrew Junkie Blog was pretty cool. He seemed to have a pretty professional and organized website.

Since his store closed and moved then closed again, I haven't heard anything from him. No updates to homebrew junkie or youtube videos.

I just always wondered..... Hmmm.

 

[joyceman]

A little off topic but I am very new to PGH and wondered what everyone did for their brewing water? In Tennessee I just used RO and added minerals back to it but didn't know how good the water is here and what treatments are necessary.

My provider is West View water and havent had any issues other than a need to add some gypsum to stouts once or twice. I think that generally the local water is considered relatively hard (no surprise there).

If youre in the city proper, heres a link to the latest water report...http://www.pgh2o.com/docs/2011_Water_Quality_Report.pdf

And to brewguyver, the guys at Country Wines have been great. The counterguy, Dave, is the best.

 

[Weezy]

I don't think the local breweries can help. They'd have to buy the grain and resell to us. I'm taking a guess that their brewpub license won't let them do that.

 

[brewguyver]

I don't think the local breweries can help. They'd have to buy the grain and resell to us. I'm taking a guess that their brewpub license won't let them do that.

If they can sell t-shirts and hats, they can sell buckets, grain, etc. Bells actually runs a homebrew store now (not that they're local).

 

[Weezy]

Yeah, you may be right. Although, Bells isn't permitted through the good old boys at the PLCB. The guys at Full Pint sure paint them as PITA for every little thing.