Pitching warm dropping temp

[sicktght311]

Since summer groundwater temps are here, curious if anyone has done any experiments pitching somewhere around 76-78 degrees and then cooling your fermenter down to fermentation temps before it really kicks off

Typically with dry yeast I have a solid 12 hours or so of lag before it REALLY gets going which is plenty of time for me to brew a batch at night, cool to upper 70s, pitch yeast, put it in my fermentation chamber and then wake up to wort temps at fermentation targets.

I would think since the rehydration process asks you to pitch at higher temps, why would this be any different than just putting it directly into the fermenter 10 degrees above target temp and letting it cool down by the time it takes off

 

[redarmy990]

I just did the cream of 3 crops receipe and pitched around 78 degrees. Not on purpose. Couldn’t get it any cooler with out waiting 11 hours. Put into basement temp next morning was 66. And bubbling away after around 8 hours of pitching. This was liquid white labs cream ale yeast. Just kegged but sample I took tasted great.

 

[Jag75]

I wouldn't pitch on the high side of the yeast temps. You could hinder the yeast by pitching too warm . I dont think a couple degrees would kill your yeast but when fermentation kicks in the temp ramps up. I would cool your wort down then pitch. Less chances of negative outcomes. I've waited and pitched the next morning because I couldnt get the temp down fast enough.

 

[OnePlate]

Brulosophy has done a test on this with both ales and lagers. The ale test was no different, the lager had a minor difference. It needs to be noted that the lager was pitched at a 80F which is nuts, but even then the brewer preferred the flavor of the warm-pitch lager.

I often pitch a few degrees warm with great results. Yeast growth happens much slower at cooler temperatures so if you pitch say 10 degrees F warmer and cool down to your target temp, you should have less lag time with no detectable off flavors (with most yeasts, results may vary).

 

[Vale71]

Once more a completely worthless experiment brought to you by the most useless website in the history of brewing...
I mean, really, you want to play around with fermentation temps and don't even bother placing the two test batches in separate fermentation chambers with independent temp control? What a bunch of clowns.

 

[OnePlate]

While I agree that many of Brulosophy's experiments should be taken with a grain of salt and many should be repeated in order to get better data, I don't consider them worthless in the slightest.

Anyways, even White Labs recommends pitching their yeast at 70-72°F (21-22°C) and then cooling to fermentation temp. Even for lagers.

 

[Vale71]

I trust the literature more than I trust somebody who's trying to sell me their product.
Of course you can pitch a lager yeast at 22+°C, I just hope you like diacetyl in all your lagers...

As for the Brulosophy experiment, they basically tested for a variable (fermenting wort temperature) that they could neither control nor actually measure throughout the experiment. You can't get more ridiculous than that.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Or use kveik yeast or WLP644.....

I've read conflicting studies on when flavours are developed by yeast - some claim the early ferment is most important, others the peak of fermentation activity. My take on that is that it's probably yeast dependent. I've done it with US05 and the results have been OK to good.

 

[mongoose33]

I usually pitch a little warm and let my chiller take the fermenter down to ferm temp over a period of hours.

Tuesday I brewed a lager; pitched an entire starter (no decanting) at 75 degrees, set the system to drop to 70, 8 hours later dropped to 63, 7.5 hours later dropped to 50.

It's been perking along just fine (as it always does).

If I'm doing ale, similar--I'll pitch in the lower 70s somewhere, then take it down to ferm temp which is typically 63 or 64 degrees.

****

BTW, I'm following a variation of the Brulosophy fast-lager-ferment. When attenuation is half done, I bump up 4 degrees every 12 hours until I hit 66 degrees. I'll hold it there for two days (it's a rest, in essence), then drop it back down to 54 or 48 degrees, dropping it 6 degrees every 6-7 hours or so.

Hard to do this unless you keep taking samples or have a Tilt. But it works. This morning, not quite 5 days after pitching at 3pm on Tuesday, I'm down to 1.012 from 1.063. I sealed up the conical when it hit 1.020 so it could carbonate itself the rest of the way. I'll end up with about 1.5 volumes of carbonation when I'm done.

****

I am not as down on brulosophy as @Vale71 is, though I've not looked at the specific brulosophy experiment to which he's referring. Generally I consider the experiments to be pretty well done. My criticism of the brulosophy stuff has been the way they test for differences. No way to know what people have been drinking or eating prior to the tests, plus afaik they don't randomize the order the beers are presented to the testers. Thus a "no difference" result could be that there's really no discernable difference...or the tasters, by virtue of having burned up their taste buds with IPAs and such prior to testing, simply can't tell.

I tend to put a little more credence in the experiments that do find a difference for this reason--they would appear to be overcoming the testing flaws--but as always, the best thing to do with a specific result is try it, and see if it makes a difference to me.

 

[Jag75]

I go by the particular yeast instructions. If the yeast says between 65 and 72 , I stay between that . It really depends on ones set up as well . With my DIY gylcol I can pitch and hold it at that temp within 1 to 2 degrees where as before if I pitched at 70 it would go well above the 72 degrees recommended. We do all kinds of stuff to make our beer better whether its spending coin on cool gadgets like temp controllers. Its safer to stay within the yeast temp of that particular yeast strain. Just my opinion, and you know what they say about those lol.

 

[Dland]

I sometimes pitch lagers a little warm if they were not quite chilled enough going into fermentor. Pitching as high as mid 60'sF, and achieving mid 50's by the next morning.

I have not noticed a difference between these and the ones pitched at lower temp.

My understanding is that yeast is multiplying at first, and is not fermenting much then, so I'm not sure how it could be producing off flavors then, though I'm familiar with that assertion.

If my ferments are producing any diacetyl at first, it is taken care of by the D rest at end of fermentation.

 

[MaxStout]

I usually stop chilling once I'm 5 or so degrees above target temp. Then pitch and let the ferm chamber do the rest. Otherwise, I'm wasting a lot of water trying to eke out a few more degrees, as chilling become asymptotic at that point. I brewed yesterday and my low-60s ground water got me to 68 fairly quickly. I pulled out the IC, racked and pitched. Target temp was 64, so close enough. The ferm chamber pushed it down those last 4 degrees in an hour or so.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

In the middle of the summer in Charlotte, my Immersion Chiller gets slow once I get toward 90 degrees. I usually put it into the fermentation bucket at that temperature, then put that in my chest freezer hooked up to an inkbird. It gets to the low 70s in maybe three hours, then I pitch the yeast.

 

[Steveruch]

I've often pitched lager yeast warmer than proper fermentation temperature.
My I C would get the wort down to mid 60s (mid-afternoon), I pitch my yeast and put it into my cooler set at 50f. The wort would be down to 52f by morning and I'd have signs of fermentation by early afternoon or sooner. The beer always came out good.

 

[Eric_S]

Get a small pond pump and use ice water. Do the bulk of your cooking with tap and then switch to ice water. Chris White said you can use 1 pack and pitch warm but best practice is make a starter and pitch cold.

 

[Beernik]

Unless I’m doing something like a saison or hefe where I’m unconcerned about esters and phenols, I’ll have my wort and starter both in the ferm chamber so they are both at the desired fermentation temp when I pitch.

 

[bkboiler]

In San Diego I always have this problem in the summer. I sanitize my fermenter and put the wort in there in my ferm chamber overnight at like 50F. Usually comes out just fine in the morning and I pitch then.

 

[ncbrewer]

White and Zainashef's Yeast book recommends pitching at 1 - 3 F below target fermentation temp and slowly raising to ferm temp over 18 - 36 hours. One of many opinions, but a good source.

 

[sicktght311]

I think i have to clarify........

I dont mean pitching warmer, and then leaving fermentation to do its thing with ambient controlled temps which means my fermentation temps are super high.

I control actual liquid temperature when i ferment through the thermowell in my fermenter and an inkbird controlling the chamber based on that temp, so if i pitch at say 73, but ferment at 64, that means the yeast is going into the wort at 73 degrees, and then my fermentation chamber is chilling the actual wort down to 64 during the next 6-12 hour period before fermentation fully kicks off, so by the time i wake up the next morning, the actual wort temp is 64 degrees, its fermenting, and thats where the liquid temp stays until i ramp up at the end of fermentation

 

[ericbw]

I just find it hard to pitch warm and then cool it down. If it's cooled (65-ish), it's easier to keep cool. If it's 75 and starts fermenting, it's harder (for me) to get it down to 65. As an example.

 

[ncbrewer]

I just find it hard to pitch warm and then cool it down. If it's cooled (65-ish), it's easier to keep cool. If it's 75 and starts fermenting, it's harder (for me) to get it down to 65. As an example.

I see a similar effect. If I pitch warm (66 - 68F), it generates heat during the lag phase. If I pitch at 63 - 65F, it doesn't generate much heat. But I've never read anything that supports this observation.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

even then the brewer preferred the flavor of the warm-pitch lager.

I might prefer an avocado that tasted like filet mignon, but that doesn't mean an avocado should taste like that.

In all reality, the optimum is a large pitch BELOW target fermentation temp and allow it to rise.

That said, not all of us have equipment that allows for that.
I do a lot of lagers, and have on occasion, for one reason or another, had to pitch warmer than desired ferm temp. IN such cases, get as close as you can to the desired temp and then get it to ferm temp as quickly as possible.
You may have some consequences to deal with (diacetyl and other off flavors that you personally may or may not be able to perceive), but the closer you can get, the fewer and less severe consequences. It's an inversely proportional sliding scale of how close vs negative effects.

 

[ba-brewer]

A presentation by chris white, about 51min 40sec he talks about pitching warm for lagers.

If you watch the full video and read/listen between the lines the key is pitching the appropriate amount yeast to get good growth of new cells.

 

[brewbama]

Like others mentioned, I cool as low as I can with my warm ground water,place the fermenter in a fridge, wait until the wort is no higher than the advertised upper temp range, then pitch. Depending on the season the cooling could take a few hours or it could take overnight. No worries. I’m not in a hurry.