pitching a starter without decanting

[zoomzilla]

How bad is this? I know I shouldn't be pitching oxygenated beer into my batch but how much will a 1 liter starter effect a 5 gallon batch? This will be my second starter so I don't have much anecdotal evidence of my own.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I don't usually decant, and I can't tell a difference.

 

[lowtones84]

^Agreed. I like having the yeast nice and active when I pitch.

 

[stpug]

How bad is this?

This bad: [-------------]

I know I shouldn't be pitching oxygenated beer into my batch but how much will a 1 liter starter effect a 5 gallon batch?

First and foremost, if you know you shouldn't then why would you?

If the 1 liter tastes terrible then it can have a significant effect on the entire batch. It's gonna vary depending on circumstances.

This will be my second starter so I don't have much anecdotal evidence of my own.

I guess you can start developing your own anecdotal evidence now

I decant at all times possible which means there's only been once that I didn't decant a start (about 1 liter in 5 gallon batch). The beer was decent but I suspected the full starter was a detriment to the overall beer.

 

[zoomzilla]

Yeah my thinking is that I want it active when I pitch. Plus it adds another step to boil and cool water then pour that into the yeast and shake it to get it in suspension. Its probably just lazy and until I see some evidence that its strictly bad I will continue.

 

[stpug]

Yeah my thinking is that I want it active when I pitch. Plus it adds another step to boil and cool water then pour that into the yeast and shake it to get it in suspension. Its probably just lazy and until I see some evidence that its strictly bad I will continue.

Crashing and decanting doesn't mean the yeast has been "inactivated", it's just been encouraged to flocculate so you can remove most of the "bad beer" that fills 99% of the flask. Removing this "bad beer" is beneficial so as not to impart unusual flavors into your batch.

When I decant I actually leave a small layer of "bad beer" in the flask to swish around so the yeast are in suspension. After pitching, I'll sometimes add a ladle-full of wort into the flask to swish and pitch to ensure I get as much yeast out of the flask as possible. I wouldn't boil/cool water to do this. If I had one to spare, I would use an unopened/sealed bottle of spring water and pour some of that into the flask to rinse the excess yeast.

 

[rodwha]

I view it as putting the yeast to sleep and therefor they aren't quite as rearing to go.

I've always tossed the whole starter in.

If aerating is necessary in the beginning why would a starter (micro beer) that's been aerated for the first 24-36 hrs be bad? Would using a whisk prior to pouring into the flask negate this "bad aerated" beer issue (if it truly is one)?


*Edit*
My sense of logic has failed me before, but this just doesn't make sense to me and so I've always tossed the whole thing...

 

[YeastMode]

I personally have done it both ways, and I have not been able to tell the difference. So, if the beer is lighter (like a blond or pils) I will decant. If it is a double IPA, I will usually just pitch the entire starter. I also notice worse "off flavors" from certain yeast strains, so it the starter smells or tastes particularly off, I will decant.

So, in a nutshell, I have done it both ways, and made a decision on a case by case basis using my judgment.

 

[MX1]

Crashing and decanting doesn't mean the yeast has been "inactivated", it's just been encouraged to flocculate so you can remove most of the "bad beer" that fills 99% of the flask. Removing this "bad beer" is beneficial so as not to impart unusual flavors into your batch.

When I decant I actually leave a small layer of "bad beer" in the flask to swish around so the yeast are in suspension. After pitching, I'll sometimes add a ladle-full of wort into the flask to swish and pitch to ensure I get as much yeast out of the flask as possible. I wouldn't boil/cool water to do this. If I had one to spare, I would use an unopened/sealed bottle of spring water and pour some of that into the flask to rinse the excess yeast.

If your starter made "Bad Beer" why would you use that starter at all? It is a sign that the yeast is stressed, and not as healthy as it should be.

The starter medium after fermentation should taste and smell like flat, unhopped beer, and should not effect the final product that it is pitched into.

Or at lest that is what I have been told, and my opinion of how it should all go down, as with all things brewing, YMMV

T

 

[catdaddy66]

I've never actually decanted or cold crashed my starter. I pitch it as is... Have had consistently great-excellent results.

I may try to decant and cold crash as a neat experiment!

 

[sudbuddy]

I think that it really depends on the starter. If you have a healthy, active starter going and you pitch at high krausen you should be ok to pour the whole thing in. If it has already flocculated then you need to decant.

 

[stpug]

If your starter made "Bad Beer" why would you use that starter at all? It is a sign that the yeast is stressed, and not as healthy as it should be.

The starter medium after fermentation should taste and smell like flat, unhopped beer, and should not effect the final product that it is pitched into.

Or at lest that is what I have been told, and my opinion of how it should all go down, as with all things brewing, YMMV

T

It may simply be a difference of process. My starters are highly oxygenated with O2, fermented quite warm (~75F), spun on a stir plate that occasionally whips in some air even after full propagation has been completed, in a clear glass flask where ambient daylight can affect it. This leaves "bad beer" but excellent yeast.

Not to mention that my starters are generally a fraction of the OG of my batch of beer (~1.030 OG). In addition, IIRC, the alcohol production in stirred starters is slightly hampered due to the highly aerobic environment they're working in. I'd be watering down my real batch of beer with this stuff.

I taste the top-water of nearly every starter I make and some have been fairly neutral, but many have been excessively estery and, more generally, not great tasting. Why would I want to add this top-water to a batch of beer I've worked so hard to create?

But it's just like pitching a single vial of yeast into an average-gravity 5 gallon batch. It'll make beer and those that use the method will defend it

 

[Yooper]

It really depends on the size of the starter! One liter in a 5 gallon batch? Sure, why not? Even if the starter tasted terrible (and it shouldn't, although it could be oxidized of course), that's such a small amount I wouldn't worry.

But for a big lager, 3 gallons of starter wort might be a different story! Even a 2L starter or more, I'd make in advance and stick in the fridge and then decant the spent wort.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

Anything over 1.5L, I decant. If smaller, I just toss it in...

 

[lowtones84]

When I do decant, I usually grab a small amount of wort (a cup or two roughly) as soon as it starts boiling, then cool it quickly. While that's happening I'm letting my starter come up to room temp, then I toss in the cooled wort from the beginning of the boil.

I don't have scientific evidence for this, but I've often gotten activity in that hour+ of boiling then chilling before pitching. My logic is that any heads tart is good, and the lower OG of the wort from the beginning of the boil probably helps too. Like I said, I have no science to back this up And not disparaging those that decant either, I see the logic and have done it both ways.