Pitch now or wait?

[blackbear219]

Brewing as we speak. Chilling wort now. I got the ingredients from AHS today and the chill pack with the liquid yeast was warm.

It's the Wyeast "activator" so I popped the internal nutrient bag about 2 1/2 hours ago. It has not began to visibly swell yet at all.

When my wort gets down to temp, should I just pitch anyways? Or should I put the wort away for the night and if the bag has swelled in the morning, pitch it...if not, go to the LHBS and buy some fresh yeast?

Any advice? Thanks!

 

[DoubleAught]

I'm afraid it's not good to put your wort away for the night. I'd pitch as thats just about your only option. If the yeast was warm you may have a pretty long lag time, or you may have to pitch more if it's dead, although unlikely.

 

[kapbrew13]

I'm afraid it's not good to put your wort away for the night. I'd pitch as thats just about your only option. If the yeast was warm you may have a pretty long lag time, or you may have to pitch more if it's dead, although unlikely.

What happens if the wort is put away for the night?

 

[Grumpybumpy]

What happens if the wort is put away for the night?

Instead of the yeast taking control of the situation, some bacteria might decide to drop in there and infect your beer before the yeast can take hold. I'd say, pitch now...has it blown up at all? Maybe the yeast can munch on the nutrients that's in the bag while in the wort.

 

[DoubleAught]

What happens if the wort is put away for the night?

I read somewhere once that a freshly mixed wort should have the yeast pitched as soon as it hits the correct temps as it's vulnerable to infection. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[kapbrew13]

I read somewhere once that a freshly mixed wort should have the yeast pitched as soon as it hits the correct temps as it's vulnerable to infection. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Makes sense but how do the no chill brewers get away with it. Are the cheating?

 

[DoubleAught]

Makes sense but how do the no chill brewers get away with it. Are the cheating?

That beats me.

 

[Grumpybumpy]

I wonder if reboiling the wort the next day would help stave off any infection... Maybe add a bit more hops to keep the aroma? Anyone know if this works?

 

[blackbear219]

I read somewhere once that a freshly mixed wort should have the yeast pitched as soon as it hits the correct temps as it's vulnerable to infection. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If my yeast got nuked then there is going to be a lag time anyways and the same concern still applies.

I pitched it, figured what the hell. We'll see what happens. I'm sure it will be fine. It usually is. RDWHAHB.

 

[DoubleAught]

If my yeast got nuked then there is going to be a lag time anyways and the same concern still applies.

I pitched it, figured what the hell. We'll see what happens. I'm sure it will be fine. It usually is. RDWHAHB.

I know your concern. Nothing against AHS, it's been really hot this summer. I also receive some hot yeast from them a month or so ago. I made a starter with it and had zero activity 18 hours later. Drove an hour to my LBS the next day and got another pack and used it. I let the starter sit a week just to see if I was over-reacting and there still was no activity.

I'd probably pitch a fresh bag tomorrow just to ease my nerves....but that's me.

 

[BradleyBrew]

pitch it... it wont hurt... I would go to the brew shop and get some dry yeast and wait it out. If you do not get active fermentation results within 72 hours pitch some dry. I always keep a packet of s-05 and nottingham for strange situations. I learned my lesson before . Good luck!

 

[Golddiggie]

If you don't have ANY indication of activity inside your fermenter after ~72 hours, then pitch more yeast. Depending on the brew's OG, you could get another pack and pitch it in without creating any issues. I would go to a LHBS this time though.

As much as I like the cost savings of ordering yeast online, I don't trust the shipping companies to get it to me in a good condition. So, I simply buy my yeast locally. I've started buying a few brews ahead, for what yeast I'll be using. This gives me greater flexibility, since it also means I have a couple of different strains on hand at any given time.

Of course, I make starters (I do this for the vast majority of my brews) to ensure I pitch either the right amount of yeast, or close enough to not matter.

If you have a thermometer on the side of the fermenter, write down what the temp is/was before you pitched the yeast. If it goes down, and stays there for more than 24 hours, chances are the yeast you pitched was in a world of hurt. If it goes up, even slightly, then there's buggers still alive in there doing all they can.

BTW, what was the OG? Did you add any yeast nutrient to the batch? How did you oxygenate (pure O2 or the aged shake method)?

Just remember, there is hope even if the yeast you pitched are too few to do the job. Hopefully, there's a HBS near enough to where you are that carries the same yeast. Otherwise, I would order up another pack with overnight shipping, and cold packs. I guess I'm spoiled by having a good LHBS that I can get my yeast from. :rockin:

 

[DoubleAught]

I guess I'm spoiled by having a good LHBS that I can get my yeast from. :rockin:

Speaking of good LBS's. I try and order my yeast from my LBS as well now. It normally is delivered with-in 48 hours and cheaper than me driving there. The last order I made arrived in 2 days and when I opened the box they had made an internal box lined with a foam and foil type of insulation, they wrapped both bags of Wyeast in a plastic bag with a cold pak. Two days in a UPS truck with a 105 degree heat index and the yeast was still cold. I was totally impressed with the care taken to not cook the yeast.

 

[blackbear219]

If you don't have ANY indication of activity inside your fermenter after ~72 hours, then pitch more yeast. Depending on the brew's OG, you could get another pack and pitch it in without creating any issues. I would go to a LHBS this time though.

As much as I like the cost savings of ordering yeast online, I don't trust the shipping companies to get it to me in a good condition. So, I simply buy my yeast locally. I've started buying a few brews ahead, for what yeast I'll be using. This gives me greater flexibility, since it also means I have a couple of different strains on hand at any given time.

Of course, I make starters (I do this for the vast majority of my brews) to ensure I pitch either the right amount of yeast, or close enough to not matter.

If you have a thermometer on the side of the fermenter, write down what the temp is/was before you pitched the yeast. If it goes down, and stays there for more than 24 hours, chances are the yeast you pitched was in a world of hurt. If it goes up, even slightly, then there's buggers still alive in there doing all they can.

BTW, what was the OG? Did you add any yeast nutrient to the batch? How did you oxygenate (pure O2 or the aged shake method)?

Just remember, there is hope even if the yeast you pitched are too few to do the job. Hopefully, there's a HBS near enough to where you are that carries the same yeast. Otherwise, I would order up another pack with overnight shipping, and cold packs. I guess I'm spoiled by having a good LHBS that I can get my yeast from. :rockin:

OG is 1.054.

If I do end up re-pitching, do I have to get the same type of yeast? I'm not sure if my LHBS carries this exact one. It was Wyeast AAII 1272.

I did not add any nutrient other than what is in the smack pack.

I aerated by splashing nice and good when adding the wort to the top off water and also with a good sloppy stir.

 

[Golddiggie]

HoosierDaddyBrew, that IS a good LHBS... Mine is about a 30-40 minute drive each way) for me. Still, I don't mind driving there to get yeast, or whatever else I might need. Since I won't need to pay shipping, it's cheaper for me. Plus, I'll know if they have what I need or not. If not, then I usually have enough time to order online. Or, in the case of yeast, I can pick an alternate strain. Luckily, they almost always have either my primary choice, or a solid second runner on hand.

 

[eastoak]

I'm afraid it's not good to put your wort away for the night. I'd pitch as thats just about your only option. If the yeast was warm you may have a pretty long lag time, or you may have to pitch more if it's dead, although unlikely.

this is not entirely true. i often let my wort sit overnight and pitch in the morning. unless you let the kettle/fermenter sit uncovered in a dirty, windy environment the chances of infection are not that high. i would advise pitching an adequate amount of yeast rather than under pitching then starting a "why haven't i seen any bubbles" thread later. someone else pointed out how the no chill brewers do this routinely with no problem so rushing to underpitch is no solution at all.

 

[Golddiggie]

OG is 1.054.

If I do end up re-pitching, do I have to get the same type of yeast? I'm not sure if my LHBS carries this exact one. It was Wyeast AAII 1272.

I did not add any nutrient other than what is in the smack pack.

I aerated by splashing nice and good when adding the wort to the top off water and also with a good sloppy stir.

At that OG, you should be ok with what you did... If the LHBS doesn't have the same strain, look up on Wyeast's site for other strains that are for the same brew style. Use that list as your alternates. They should have at least one of those on hand. Otherwise, contact the vendor you ordered from and tell them that there was no swelling and that no actvity is going on in primary. I do know that Wyeast will guarantee their yeast, if it doesn't swell, but with shipping and you pitching it, that could be difficult to get a 0 cost replacement.

IMO, AHS should at least send you a replacement pack of the same strain, with correct cold pack count, overnight to replace what arrived too hot to work/live. IMO, they should know how long the cold pack will work properly, for the shipping duration. IF they don't insulate it well enough to survive, that's not you're fault.

Again, I prefer the LHBS for yeast since I don't need to worry about such things. Making starters also means I know, at least the day before, if the packet is good BEFORE I brew... I've yet to run across a single packet of Wyeast that's not swelled up properly in the normal amount of time.

BTW, I also agree that leaving your wort without yeast pitched, or with NFG yeast in it, for a day (or two) won't be a huge bad thing. Provided (of course) you properly sanitized the fermenter, and have it sealed up properly. I believe that's how the 'no chill' brewers get away with their method. The wort is placed into a sanitized container/vessel/primary and then allowed to cool. Keeping it properly sealed up means no nasties can get into it to infect it.

 

[blackbear219]

Thanks for the advice, Gold.

I'll wait the 72 hours and if it's dead as a doornail in there, I'll re-pitch. I'm hoping it won't come to that, but that smack pack wasn't swelling at all...time will tell.

 

[Golddiggie]

If it's 48 hours, and at night, and there's no activity sign the next morning, I would order/get more yeast that day. You could order it up now, or get it tomorrow, and just keep it if you don't need to use it. It will safely keep for about 6 months from the date on the packet. There are people that have used it after more than that much time has passed too. Of course, after a few months, I'd use a starter with it, even for a low OG brew/batch.

 

[lakeshorebrewer]

Pitching was the right thing. Even if it has a low count of viable cells it is better than none. The bacteria will start to take over if you let it set. It's just the way it is no matter how clean your process is. I keep a couple of dry packs of ale yeast around just in case I have an issue like yours or the lag seems way to long after a couple of days. I can address it then.

It is a real problem when on occasion you hear of a major brewery forgetting to pitch the yeast.

 

[beersteiner2345]

Had the same thing happen with my yeast from a recent purchase. Suffice it to say I will be making a starter for it. If it takes off, sweet. If it doesn't, off to the NSLHBS (Not So Local Home Brew Shop).

 

[blackbear219]

Nothing yet but it hasn't been nearly long enough yet to tell. I am going to go to the LHBS today at lunch and pick up some yeast, just to have it on hand. If I don't see anything in 72 hours, I will pitch it.

This was an expensive batch too. Lesson learned. Needless to say, I will never mail order yeast again.

 

[kapbrew13]

Nothing yet but it hasn't been nearly long enough yet to tell. I am going to go to the LHBS today at lunch and pick up some yeast, just to have it on hand. If I don't see anything in 72 hours, I will pitch it.

This was an expensive batch too. Lesson learned. Needless to say, I will never mail order yeast again.

Lesson learned. Starter is our friend. Also keep extra dry yeast on hand in the fridge.

 

[blackbear219]

If I do need to re-pitch and the LHBS doesn't have Wyeast 1272, what should I get? I know they have White Labs, I don't know if they have Wyeast. Is there a White Labs equivalent to 1272?

 

[kapbrew13]

If I do need to re-pitch and the LHBS doesn't have Wyeast 1272, what should I get? I know they have White Labs, I don't know if they have Wyeast. Is there a White Labs equivalent to 1272?

Wlp051 or wlp001

 

[blackbear219]

Wlp051 or wlp001

Thanks. Read up on both and I will go with WLP051 if I can't get my hands on some more Wyeast 1272.

Of course, this is all assuming my current yeast doesn't go anywhere. I'm holding out faith that it will after some lag time, but if it doesn't I will be prepared.

 

[Skarekrough]

Makes sense but how do the no chill brewers get away with it. Are the cheating?

No, they just live in the real world and deal with the complications.

I've been brewing for over ten years and I can count the number of times I've made a starter on one hand. I've also let wort sit overnight to cool down and pitched after its been there for eight hours with an envelope of dry yeast that was out of the 'fridge for half an hour.

It's not rocket science....it's beer. Sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes you can control them, whole or partly, sometimes not. You just deal with it.

"Best practices" are great to have but when you don't stick to them by the letter it doesn't necessarily mean that the end product will spoil or you won't end up with something drinkable.

 

[kh54s10]

My last shipment of Wyeast arrived hot and the smack pack was partially swelled. I put it in the fridge and a couple of days later I made a starter. I tried to break the nutrient pack but couldn't because of the inflation. I dumped in the yeast and then opened the nutrients and dumped them in. Within a few hours on the stir plate I could see the co2 in the starter so was confident everything was ok. The fermentation in the beer started by the next morning. But, just in case I am from now on going to have on hand some dry yeast as a backup.

 

[blackbear219]

I picked up some WLP051 at the LHBS on my lunch break. I checked my wort and there is nothing going on in there right now.

I am leaning towards re-pitching tonight and getting this show on the road.

 

[Bennypapa]

I just brewed my 1st homebrew Saturday. I had made a starter since the yeast vile I ordered was about 94 degrees when I got it. 24 hours in the fermenter there was nothing. At 48 hours I had seen a couple of bubbles through the airlock but no kruezen. I was worried so I called my mailorder HBS and they said wait until Wednesday. Sure enough when I came home from work Tuesday it was bubbling and there was a good layer of kruezen on it. It was still going this AM.

The lesson I learned is that yeast that gets hot, if not completely dead, takes longer to show signs of life. I assume that is because it is going through more generations of reproduction and the numbers are going up with each generation. If you start with very few yeast cells it will take more generations and more time for them to show signs. This is my assumption.

I'm going to pass along the advice that my HBS gave me. Give it 3 to 4 days then take a gravity reading. base your yeast re-pitching decisions on that reading.

Hope it takes off soon!