Belgian Golden Strong Ale Pink Elephant (Delirium Tremens clone)

[jkarp]

I like the Cooper's Drops better than the Munton's Carb Tabs, though I suspect you're talking about Drops because 2 per bomber would be right - it's more like 8-10 of the Munton's Tabs per bottle.

 

[sivdrinks]

Yup, using Coopers. Foresee any carbing problems after the beer lagers for two weeks? Got an Imp Stout that still aren't fully carbed after almost three months and that wasn't even cold crashed. It was around 9%.

 

[jkarp]

I don't bottle condition anymore but when I did I used Cooper's Drops exclusively. Never had one fail to carbonate, even after a month or more of lagering.

 

[enricocoron]

I had two regular 22 oz. bottles ( I believe these are bomber bottles) blow out during the 82 degree conditioning phase. No blowouts on Champagne bottles so far. I don't think bomber bottles are coded any higher than 12 oz. bottles. Most of them are designed for beers from 1.8-2.4 volumes Co2. Russian rivers Damnation and Alesmiths Horny Devil are two excellent beers that you could guzzle and those bottles are designed for higher Co2 levels. Alemsiths Belgian bottles will take a plastic cork which is what I mainly use.

I can't comment on Carb tabs as I've never used them.

 

[sivdrinks]

Thanks for the info guys. I'm gonna use the bombers with two carb tabs each of Coopers. Had no problems with an 8% pumpkin so I'm hoping for the same with this. Brewed my PM version last night and came in at 1.074, fermented with s-04 and Wyeast Belgian Golden. Fermenting this morning at around 68 deg, should be a little more violent when I get home at 5 today.

 

[enricocoron]

One final warning though, it's not about OG or ABV, it's about volumes CO2...at 3.0 I had 2/12 Bombers burst, I have no idea what two carb tabs of Coopers is though, I just did a full cup of Corn sugar to 5 gallons, which is about 3.0...I believe 3/4 cup is the standard recommendation for American Ales. If two Coopers tabs is what you would use for American Ales, your mouthfeel will not match DT, you would need an additional half tab and that's where the bombers get stressed....but either way, the bottom just collapsed out, it's not a full on bottle bomb or anything.

Mines pretty much sputtering out now and I'm about to rack to the lagering vessel for 2-3 weeks at 35 degrees, need to find some grains of paradise.

 

[sivdrinks]

I hear ya about the mouthful. Only reason I'm not too worried is because they probably won't get touched till they've been sitting for about 3 months or longer. Beers I've done with carb tabs tend to be pretty spritzy the longer they go. I'd like to know myself what Coopers says their tabs equate to in volumes of c02.

 

[sivdrinks]

Just to update my partial mash attempt. Started at 1.074 fermented with s04 and Wyeast Belgian Golden at around 70 deg. Two weeks later it's down to 1.011 sitting around 67 deg. Plan on letting it sit another week before cold crashing. Haven't decided how long to crash or if I will bring it back to room temp before kegging and bottling. Any thoughts?

 

[enricocoron]

I used Belgian Ale yeast only this time and it tasted pretty good going into the lagering phase. I would lager it two weeks if you can, this brew tends to be on the green side if you rush it....I usually plan on not drinking it until 2-3 months post brew day.

Started at 1.078, finished at 1.007, I'll lager 2 weeks, hot bottle condition for 3 weeks and then let sit for at least another week. I skipped the grains of P this time as last and no S04 so I'm curious to compare it to the last bottle of a previous batch.

 

[jkarp]

I've got a batch on tap right now. Fermented cool - couldn't get it above 78 - but thankfully it finished out. Very smooth for an 8% brew...

 

[ChillWill]

Got this on the boil now!

Only changes are:

-Used Hallertau (3.1%) instead of styrian as that's what I had
-No grains of paradise, so just gone with corriander seed & ginger
-My mash went 20@130F, 45@144F, 30@158F
-Will be using cultured DT yeast (smells pretty good, if that fails I've got some washed WLP550 in backup).
-Using clear Belgian candi sugar

When do you add the sugar? I assume in the last 10mins or so? Or are people adding it after the initial fermentation is done to get more attenuation?

 

[jkarp]

I add sugar the last 15 when I add my irish moss.

 

[ChillWill]

Thanks Jkarp.

Somehow I've managed an OG of 1.080 and I NEVER overshoot gravity targets (well, I think I did once, by 2 pts). I wonder if that mash schedule (never done one like that before) did it.

I looked at some lecture slides from a workshop I attended at a local university (the brewery I work for sent me) and extraction efficiency rises with temperature while fermentability of sugars decreases.

I kind of knew that, but didn't realise it was to that extent:

Mash Temp: 50degC/122F Extract Yield: 73% Fermentability: 89%
Mash Temp: 55degC/131F Extract Yield: 89% Fermentability: 93%
Mash Temp: 60degC/140F Extract Yield: 96% Fermentability: 86%
Mash Temp: 65degC/149F Extract Yield: 98% Fermentability: 80%
Mash Temp: 70degC/158F Extract Yield: 99.5% Fermentability: 66%

As a side note, we were running a batch of larger malt at the same time as the lecture on 40l system, so not sure if that only relates to that (being fairly un-modified in comparison to pale malts). I think I'm going to be playing around with different steps in my mashes more often (including possibly a hefe decoction next on the list!).

 

[Amanofbeer]

How much does the timing of the sugar addition affect attenuation and why? Belgian candi sugar is just invert sugar, right?

I plan to do this one again soon. my first attempt which was about 9 months ago went ok but i got some serious bubble gum esters...any clue why? Also, as it aged,it developed a metalic flavor. not sure wht that was about either.

 

[ChillWill]

Metallic is often oxidation?

The longer you boil the sugar, the more it will caramalise. I think the candi sugar is invert, probably easy to make, but easier to buy

Edit: Apparently if you add sugar, the yeast will go for the simple sugars first as it's 'lazy', and might not get through as much of the longer chain sugars as it would if the sugar wasn't there. So by adding sugar after the initial bulk of fermentation is done of the sugars from the malt, you get better attenuation. I'm not sure if this is scientifically proven or not.

Add sugars for a long time in the boil and it'll caramalise more so won't be fermentable (like the sugar from crystal malt).

In this case, you're probably better off doing a multi step mash, pitching a good amount of yeast, ramping temp before worrying too much about when you add the sugar.

 

[ChillWill]

For the people using cultured DT yeast:

How long does the beer take to clear? Mine is 7 days into fermentation and still hazy/cloudy as hell. Does DT yeast floc well? My only real experience of Belgian yeast is wlp550 and that drops crystal clear.

I can get finings from work if it doesn't clear. Gonna let it ride for another week in the primary; got it near a radiator now (wrapped in a towel) to keep it in the 70's as it was in the mid 60's in my ferm chamber

 

[jkarp]

The real DT is nearly never clear, unless you've got a really old bottle. Fresh off the tap in Belgium, it's cloudy.

 

[ChillWill]

Well I'll be!

My water is a bit calcium deficient as well which doesn't help.

I'll give it time, then hit it with some finings. I like it clear as the real deal is an awesome colour when clear with all the carbonation in it, almost champagne.

 

[sudsmcgee]

I just made a 10.5 gallon batch today. I split a 2L starter during active fermentation into two 5-gal buckets. I also split a single S-04 package and pitched it dry. I cooled the wort to 64 and will let it warm up to desired temperature. My question is, what is the desired fermentation temp? I have it in my furnace room and I don't want to let it get TOO hot. I see that bmason's batch got warm and didn't taste too great.

 

[bmason1623]

I just made a 10.5 gallon batch today. I split a 2L starter during active fermentation into two 5-gal buckets. I also split a single S-04 package and pitched it dry. I cooled the wort to 64 and will let it warm up to desired temperature. My question is, what is the desired fermentation temp? I have it in my furnace room and I don't want to let it get TOO hot. I see that bmason's batch got warm and didn't taste too great.

I would not let it rise beyond 75F if I were you. So maybe an ambient temperature of 66-70F might be ideal. I also think that splitting the s04 was a good idea. My version came out way too malty. What other yeast did you pitch?

 

[sudsmcgee]

I pitched Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale yeast.

 

[bmason1623]

I pitched Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale yeast.

I will be using this for my Duvel clone.

 

[Satisfaction]

Tagging this one for future a future brew..

 

[sivdrinks]

Pulled a pint of mine. It's been 7 weeks total, still green I'd say. I went 3 weeks primary 2 weeks fridge and in the keg in the fridge the past two. I didn't do a warm condition because I'm kegging, does this matter? I did bottle some for later comparison.

 

[ChillWill]

The green flavours should go away quicker when it's warmer. Depends how eager you are to drink it I suppose! Mine (when done) is going into bottles and I probably won't touch them for a while, apart from the odd one to see how it develops.

 

[sivdrinks]

It's already carbed, will warming it affect it adversely?

 

[ChillWill]

Nope!

 

[chezzesteak]

i am brewing this today. using wlp550 instead. we shall see. shouldnt be that big of a deal right?

 

[chezzesteak]

all done. in the carboy in the tub with some water. been hot in AZ lately. i was so disappointed becuase i thought i missed my SG. i was at 1072 and came inside after brew to right everything down and damn it i was spot on...

Thanks for the recipe

 

[sudsmcgee]

I just racked the first 5 gals (of 10) to a keg, and although the beer tastes delicious, it doesn't have any Belgian taste to it. All I can taste is S-04 character. I ended up substituting Wyeast 1388 and I only pitched a half pack of S-04 per bucket. My OG was 1.072 and my FG is 1.005. I fermented it at around 70-72 until it stalled at 1.020. I then warmed it up to 78 to let it finish. After that I cold crashed it for 2 days at 25 degrees and racked to my keg.

This is my first Belgian, but I'm a little surprised that it doesn't have much Belgian character. Any chance of it developing over time? Did my high 60's/low 70's ferment cause this, and should I have gone warmer?

I pitched 1L from the active 2L starter into each fermentor, and as mentioned above, I pitched 1/2 pack of S-04 per bucket. Both were pitched at the same time. Would pitching the belgian yeast first and S-04 12 hours later help?

Trust me in that I'll have zero problem drinking this delicious beer, but it's just not Delirium Tremens.