Pilsner but not really

[stephenlaplaca]

If I decide to make a pilsner recipe but use ale yeast because I have no way to lager yet, what will I end up with?

 

[McKnuckle]

Ale?

Pilsner might be a style (or a couple of styles), and pilsner malt might be the base malt in most of the world's classic lagers, but pilsner malt is just a lightly kilned malt. If you use ale yeast and follow ale fermentation practices, you'll brew an ale with pilsner malt. Probably not anything that can be pigeonholed into a standard style, but it'll be beer.

 

[rwing7486]

If I decide to make a pilsner recipe but use ale yeast because I have no way to lager yet, what will I end up with?

ALL pilsners are lagers, so you will end up with an ale.

 

[Homercidal]

A bad tasting pilsner...

Seriously, there is something about a good lager that can be hard to emulate with ale yeast. But there are a few yeast strains that are good at mimicking lager yeast if handled properly.

A steam beer, or California Commonuses lager yeast at closer to ale temps. A Kolsch or Blonde comes close to some lagers but is an ale yeast. Your best chance is to choose a very clean ale yeast and ferment at it's lower temp range.

Another caveat is that even if you are fermenting at "ale temps" you should still probably have temp control in order to make a clean tasting beer. This can be a swamp cooler, or even a cheap temp controller in a small styrofoam box with a light bulb in it. (cost about $50??)

The swamp cooler would work but requires more hands-on as you would have to rotate new frozen pop bottles now and again to keep the temps steady.

In any case, a clean tasting ale is what a lot of people desire and the first thing to look at is temp control. Recipe balance, yeast health and pitch rate all go along with it as well.

Lastly, you can't "legally" brew a Pilsner unless you brew it in Plzen, CZ. They have a copyright on the name!

 

[botigol]

Another option is to use lager yeast at the coolest temperature that you can maintain:

http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1564-vienna-lager-in-exile

"A little-known fact about lager yeasts is that they can be used at ale temperatures. Your beer will be more estery than a standard lager, but will still taste like lager beer. Many times homebrewers who wish to replicate a lager beer at ale temperatures are told to use a clean ale strain (or a “steam” beer strain) of yeast. However, a clean ale does not really taste like a lager. A “dirty” lager, however, will still taste lager-like — it will just have more yeast-derived aroma."

 

[FourSeasonAngler]

If you can get your hands on Kolsch yeast and ferment in the low 60s a pilsner malt bill with light noble hop additions will be a great light refreshing Kolsch style beer.

On the other hand, if you want to go with something light and refreshing, a saison yeast in a low gravity pilsner malt bill with nearly any variation of mild hop additions will also produce a fine saison or session brew.

I've even heard of breweries using pilsner malt as their base malt for some really outstanding IPAs. Toppling Goliath I believe does this, but I could be mistaken...

 

[hannibalmdq]

If I decide to make a pilsner recipe but use ale yeast because I have no way to lager yet, what will I end up with?

I just bottled this exact thing last night.

100% pils malt to 1.050 OG
42 IBUs distributed between Magnum/Hallertau/Saaz
Nottingham Yeast - Feremented at 55 F until >70 attenuation, then ramped a few degrees to complete attenutation
Finished at 1.010, 80% attenuation, 5.39% ABV, 0.80 RU:BU, 0.84 RBR

Pretty much spot on the BCJP definition of a crisp and hoppy German Pilsner except the yeast. You could argue that the addition of Saaz milt pull it in the Bohemian category, but whatever, it's some sort of pilsner recipe.

It's 3 weeks old going into the bottles and...it's....still an ale. I'll have to see what it tastes like when it's all carbed up but my initial impressions was that the ale characteristics that I was trying to suppress with a big pitch of a neutral ale yeast fermented very low were still present.

It's a super clean fermentation but it's got that fruity ale thing going on. It might be that you could make a different psuedo-lager with Notty that low. The delicate pilsner malt and noble hops might be letting the yeast character come through more than something a bit bolder in the grain bill that accentuates maltiness. A pilsner style lager is (I'm told) hard enough to brew well without attempting to fudge it with an ale yeast.

If I were to try it again, which I may, I would try WLP029 (Kolsch) fermented at 56/58.

 

[m1k3]

I have got lager'ish results from Nottingham so right now I am doing my first side-by-side.

I am fermenting the same batch with S-23 and Nottingham both at 54F.
This was brewed on 11-29-14. I'd be happy to report back, if you can wait.

If you need quicker answers this is a good watch:

 

[stephenlaplaca]

Thanks for the info. This is great stuff. Love this website.

 

[m1k3]

Just a report back on my Nottingham vs. S-23 fermentaton:
The ale version with Nottingham reached FG 1.002 -- 6.75% ABV
The lager version with S-23 reached FG 1.007 -- 6.1% ABV
(OG was 1.053)

54F fermentation both yeast finished and floculated at nearly the exact same time (in under a week). I gave them both 2 days at 60F and then slowly lowered to 32F to lager.

The first real taste test will be in a couple weeks.

 

[m1k3]

Ok, the Nottingham and S-23 came out totally different. I didn't think the Nottingham was that fruity until I tried the S-23 (which almost tasted like water it was so clean after drinking the Nottingham version first).

Both were great beers... but I'll never say that you can simulate a lager with Notty again. It throws some sulfur at 54F, but it's not the same... at all.

 

[hannibalmdq]

Ok, the Nottingham and S-23 came out totally different. I didn't think the Nottingham was that fruity until I tried the S-23 (which almost tasted like water it was so clean after drinking the Nottingham version first).

Both were great beers... but I'll never say that you can simulate a lager with Notty again. It throws some sulfur at 54F, but it's not the same... at all.

This was my finding as well. Notty is wonderful in the 50s, but it's still an ale yeast.