PID w/ Potentiometer dial for Manual Mode

[cod3ck]

I have to believe these exist, but so far no luck on Google...

Anyone know of or use a PID with a stove-like dial for manual mode during boils?

Right now I'm using just a basic potentiometer with an SSVR. It works like a champ for boils with the turn dial, but I'm always overshooting my strike water and sparge temps.

I realize I could break this up into two separate controls, but unless it's cost prohibitive, having one PID to control my HLT and BK seems ideal to me.

 

[cantrell00]

I have to believe these exist, but so far no luck on Google...

Anyone know of or use a PID with a stove-like dial for manual mode during boils?

Right now I'm using just a basic potentiometer with an SSVR. It works like a champ for boils with the turn dial, but I'm always overshooting my strike water and sparge temps.

I realize I could break this up into two separate controls, but unless it's cost prohibitive, having one PID to control my HLT and BK seems ideal to me.

The Auber PID's have a manual setting that allows you to vary the boil in 1% increments in manual mode via up/down push buttons.

In auto mode, it operates at a set temp in 1 degree increments.

No knob but the functionality is completely the same.

 

[BrewerBrad82]

Here you go:

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=53

 

[cod3ck]

The Auber PID's have a manual setting that allows you to vary the boil in 1% increments in manual mode via up/down push buttons.



In auto mode, it operates at a set temp in 1 degree increments.



No knob but the functionality is completely the same.

Thanks cantrell00, a turn knob is ideal but that might work... Anyone had any experience with saving a boil over using these? Anyone had this design fail on them and wish they had a turn knob?

I may just do a PID and a potentiometer power controller separately... It seems like if they'd have a push button version for manual power control in PID's though, a turn knob version would be a no brainer?!

 

[marvinsjunk]

Thanks cantrell00, a turn knob is ideal but that might work... Anyone had any experience with saving a boil over using these? Anyone had this design fail on them and wish they had a turn knob?

I may just do a PID and a potentiometer power controller separately... It seems like if they'd have a push button version for manual power control in PID's though, a turn knob version would be a no brainer?!

My ebiab panel has both a PID and Auber DSPR1 with a switch that allows me to choose which one controls the element. The DSPR1 is great for boil control and much easier to use than the PID in manual mode.

I haven't tried to recirc yet with the PID controlling mash temp so right now I just use it to get to strike temp. Then switch to DSPR1 for boil control.

 

[marvinsjunk]

Sorry, link got messed up somehow. Here's the link to the DSPR1:

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53&products_id=444

 

[Firewalker11]

I use the Mypin TD4, it has the manual function and I use a 10000W AC220V 75A SCR Voltage Regulator from eBay to have instant control of my boil:

The Auber is about twice the cost but fits nicely in the PID hole and has a nice readout:

 

[Firewalker11]

Also, consider this one, I will likely be moving on to this as I consolidate all my controllers to one box in the near future.

 

[golfindia]

The Auber PID's have a manual setting that allows you to vary the boil in 1% increments in manual mode via up/down push buttons.

In auto mode, it operates at a set temp in 1 degree increments.

No knob but the functionality is completely the same.

That's how I do it, using same PID for hlt and bk. Once you get a boil under your belt, you'll know what percentage setting keeps boil over from happening while in manual mode. Also convenient to set the PID about 208 deg. while I'm sparging and BK is only half full.

 

[cantrell00]

Thanks cantrell00, a turn knob is ideal but that might work... Anyone had any experience with saving a boil over using these? Anyone had this design fail on them and wish they had a turn knob?

I may just do a PID and a potentiometer power controller separately... It seems like if they'd have a push button version for manual power control in PID's though, a turn knob version would be a no brainer?!

You need a kill for that. Kill power that feeds the entire controller.

You don't want to rely on a PID, knob etc. in the event of a boil over or any other emergency.

 

[Firewalker11]

You need a kill for that. Kill power that feeds the entire controller.

You don't want to rely on a PID, knob etc. in the event of a boil over or any other emergency.

For boil-over? Not appropriate, the emergency stop should disconnect the power to the element but not to the pump etc. If an E-stop for all electrical power is desired, an E-stop button to a contactor mechanically disconnecting the power is desirable.

For boil-overs, they all provide a complete off for the coil in the knob or knob/button combo.

The E-stop should only be used in the case of an emergency, meaning life or limb, convince items should only cut the immediate feed, not the whole system power breaker.

 

[cod3ck]

You need a kill for that. Kill power that feeds the entire controller.



You don't want to rely on a PID, knob etc. in the event of a boil over or any other emergency.

I'm not looking for an emergency stop (the spa panel should cover that). Just boil control.

Thanks for the lookout though!

 

[BrunDog]

For boil-over? Not appropriate, the emergency stop should trigger the GFCI at the breakers, ...

This is not sound advice. There are many diagrams on these forums which purposely trip the breaker by leaking current to ground, but this is not good practice. Been beaten to death, I know, but I feel it important to advise against this every time it pops up.

 

[cod3ck]

This is not sound advice. There are many diagrams on these forums which purposely trip the breaker by leaking current to ground, but this is not good practice. Been beaten to death, I know, but I feel it important to advise against this every time it pops up.

[emoji106]🏼

Thanks BrunDog!

 

[augiedoggy]

The Auber PID's have a manual setting that allows you to vary the boil in 1% increments in manual mode via up/down push buttons.

In auto mode, it operates at a set temp in 1 degree increments.

No knob but the functionality is completely the same.

Yes but it should be mentioned that according to some like Bobby, the auber units have a minimum of a 2second duty cycle which means less control than a ssvr ..

The mypin pids however have twice the resolution with a 1 second duty cycle allowing the heating element to be activates for half as much minimum time, (more frequent pulses)

the other benefit of the mypins is switching between pid and manual mode and adjusting manual mode seems to be easier than the auber units.

I feel the mypin units have a bad rap when compared to the more expensive auber units which is unjustified the auber instructions and support is better hands down but when it comes to the actual product and function, I do think the mypins have this important advantage... not a big deal if one installs a secondary boil control device such as an ssvr or the auber pwm controller which is pretty sweet.

 

[Firewalker11]

This is not sound advice. There are many diagrams on these forums which purposely trip the breaker by leaking current to ground, but this is not good practice. Been beaten to death, I know, but I feel it important to advise against this every time it pops up.

Corrected above:

A true E-stop button would simply be a switch or contactor that would be thrown to make a mechanical break in the current, a disconnect would suffice for this.

The point I was making (agreed, don't trip the GFCI) was that there are better and more appropriate ways to disconnect the power to the element without killing power to the whole system. Which there is no need but if one is wanted, why not a simple disconnect or mechanical switch?

 

[BrunDog]

Yes but it should be mentioned that according to some like Bobby, the auber units have a minimum of a 2second duty cycle which means less control than a ssvr ..

The mypin pids however have twice the resolution with a 1 second duty cycle allowing the heating element to be activates for half as much minimum time, (more frequent pulses)

the other benefit of the mypins is switching between pid and manual mode and adjusting manual mode seems to be easier than the auber units.

I feel the mypin units have a bad rap when compared to the more expensive auber units which is unjustified the auber instructions and support is better hands down but when it comes to the actual product and function, I do think the mypins have this important advantage... not a big deal if one installs a secondary boil control device such as an ssvr or the auber pwm controller which is pretty sweet.

IMO the difference between 1 sec and 2 or even 3 sec duty cycle is negligible. There is enough thermal mass in the elements, especially the long ones, where there is no appreciable change in the temp of the element. I have done lots of testing with my BCS and have seen no real difference to justify a one second duty. Anyway, that's again, my opinion.

 

[BrunDog]

Corrected above:

A true E-stop button would simply be a switch or contactor that would be thrown to make a mechanical break in the current, a disconnect would suffice for this.

The point I was making (agreed, don't trip the GFCI) was that there are better and more appropriate ways to disconnect the power to the element without killing power to the whole system. Which there is no need but if one is wanted, why not a simple disconnect or mechanical switch?

I agree. I think you can have a main power switch to switch on/off low voltage devices and this enables high power devices which are switched by a contactor controlled by E-stop. Therefore the E-stop only cuts the high power stuff.

 

[Bobby_M]

The thread took an unnecessary turn on the estop topic. The comment was more about using something more appropriately called an element enable/disable switch. It can be used to ensure no dry firing accidents and to kill a boil over with or without manual duty control.

 

[wobblypops]

I think your looking for auburn ezboil View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1451706786.467585.jpg

 

[cod3ck]

The thread took an unnecessary turn on the estop topic. The comment was more about using something more appropriately called an element enable/disable switch. It can be used to ensure no dry firing accidents and to kill a boil over with or without manual duty control.

Interesting idea...

So just use a PID and if a boil over is about to occur, rather than turning the dial down (as you would with a pot/SSVR), just hit the element disable switch?

 

[Bobby_M]

Having an element disable switch is just good sense in all panels but its especially helpful when you have a PID that requires tap tap tap tap to adjust.

 

[dlaramie08]

Cheapest insurance against boil over is ferm cap or other silicon defoaming agent. No worry at all.

 

[augiedoggy]

IMO the difference between 1 sec and 2 or even 3 sec duty cycle is negligible. There is enough thermal mass in the elements, especially the long ones, where there is no appreciable change in the temp of the element. I have done lots of testing with my BCS and have seen no real difference to justify a one second duty. Anyway, that's again, my opinion.

good info.. I have not done any testing comparing the 2.

 

[jeffmeh]

Having an element disable switch is just good sense in all panels but its especially helpful when you have a PID that requires tap tap tap tap to adjust.

+1. To emphasize further, SSRs leak current, and often fail closed (on). An element disable switch (suitably rated switch, or lower rated switch with suitably rated contactor) enables the operator to know that "off means off." Critical safety feature, IMO.

 

[cantrell00]

+1. To emphasize further, SSRs leak current, and often fail closed (on). An element disable switch (suitably rated switch, or lower rated switch with suitably rated contactor) enables the operator to know that "off means off." Critical safety feature, IMO.

Yup. This was my point. Kill was probably a bad term. You definitely need a fast way to shut down any power from feeding to the element in the event that something mechanical fails and is stuck "on" between the source & the element.

 

[cantrell00]

Yes but it should be mentioned that according to some like Bobby, the auber units have a minimum of a 2second duty cycle which means less control than a ssvr ..

The mypin pids however have twice the resolution with a 1 second duty cycle allowing the heating element to be activates for half as much minimum time, (more frequent pulses)

the other benefit of the mypins is switching between pid and manual mode and adjusting manual mode seems to be easier than the auber units.

I feel the mypin units have a bad rap when compared to the more expensive auber units which is unjustified the auber instructions and support is better hands down but when it comes to the actual product and function, I do think the mypins have this important advantage... not a big deal if one installs a secondary boil control device such as an ssvr or the auber pwm controller which is pretty sweet.

It doesn't happened automatically, no. But practically speaking, does it really have to?

In the event of a boil over, I shut down the PID & SSR via a switch that is feeding the control power.

 

[applescrap]

+1. To emphasize further, SSRs leak current, and often fail closed (on). An element disable switch (suitably rated switch, or lower rated switch with suitably rated contactor) enables the operator to know that "off means off." Critical safety feature, IMO.

All the above are on pid controler i bought from jagger bush. Based on everything for my math cost me about $80 more to have him make it not and not wire it.

 

[BrunDog]

That's worth every penny.

 

[atoughram]

+1. To emphasize further, SSRs leak current, and often fail closed (on). An element disable switch (suitably rated switch, or lower rated switch with suitably rated contactor) enables the operator to know that "off means off." Critical safety feature, IMO.

My disable switches switch the low current/voltage SSR input circuit. I know they can fail closed, everything can fail, and there are three or four ways upstream of the elements to interrupt the current.

I have a relay that disables ALL the 220V circuits for unplugging elements, emergencies, etc.

 

[augiedoggy]

My disable switches switch the low current/voltage SSR input circuit. I know they can fail closed, everything can fail, and there are three or four ways upstream of the elements to interrupt the current.

I have a relay that disables ALL the 220V circuits for unplugging elements, emergencies, etc.

I have a similar setup.. my relays are all 24v dc and I have a 3 way selector switch to determine which 4500w if any is actively being controlled and hot.

I never use the emergency mushroom shutoff myself and If I were to do it again I probably wouldnt bother with it

 

[-CHRIS-]

In my Kal clone panel, I have one 30 amp contactor that cuts all power to the panel that is controlled by keyswitch. Each element has its own contactor to turn power to the SSRs on and off. I have a simple three way switch that lets me turn one element or the other element on via contactor. When you are doing a 13.5 gallon boil in a keggle even using fermcap I find the need to shut down the element quickly regardless of what the SSR/PID is doing.

Chris