PicoBrew Zymatic

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5 Gallon 240v, unfortunately I think it's just two 110v heating elements I only have one 240V in my Kitchen so hopefully that's enough? Maybe it's just because the images aren't loading at work, but I see no info on dimensions. I know I can't fit the 7.5g or 10g anywhere, but come on how big is each option? From other Websites I can see that It looks Like two Zymatics on top of each other but then there is an additional 4"-5" controller on top? Can they be set side by side? as much as I would like to upgrade to larger volume or two batches at once, if it don't fit...
 
When I add what I paid - some depreciation, I feel like I’ll be paying over $2000 for it, not sure I can stomach that. It would be great to brew 5 gallons consistently but not sure my dishwasher would have space for another step filter
 
Nope. They haven't released any real info about the new machine. Pico Brew fanboys are a lot like apple sheep who get in line to buy the latest product without knowing anything about, other than, "it's the newest one!"
 
...Pico Brew fanboys are a lot like apple sheep who get in line to buy the latest product without knowing anything about, other than, "it's the newest one!"
I think you're mistaken, most of the current Z owners are Trashing this release over on Facebook, they have given us no reason to buy something new, they never updated the recipe crafter for the current model. I Love my Zymatic and do not see the benefit of this "updated" version.
 
I am currently not a Zymatic owner and if I were I would have opted to not buy one as well given the current information. I think for people new to the 2.5 gallon brewing scene at picobrew it seems like a slam dunk. Able to get a 5 gallon system for less then the previous cost of the zymatic seems to make sense to me but kind of a slap in the face to those who supported the previous generation at a much higher price.

I don't think this is really made to do much for actual production. I could see a restaurant wanting to make 10-20 gallons of a beer to serve over a short period of time having potential interest but one unit would likely not be sufficient. One of the restaurants in my previous town would have a constantly evolving beer menu where they would have 2-3 kegs of different beers and once those were gone they moved onto a new beer. Always liked going there as I always knew there were new beers to try.

I see this being more of a hobby user type product with some businesses using it to try new beers but definitely not on a production scale overall.
 
Nope. They haven't released any real info about the new machine. Pico Brew fanboys are a lot like apple sheep who get in line to buy the latest product without knowing anything about, other than, "it's the newest one!"

Well, yeah, I preordered one for that exact reason. It’s the newest one, after all.

I spoke with Annie at GABF who was saying that the upcoming Zymatic replacement would take engineering cues learned from building the Pico, but it’s not clear to me exactly what those cues would be. She specifically mentioned a possible new design for the “arm” - but nothing more past that.
 
Copied from Zymatic group on Facebook.

From Annie: The StepFilter is a new design - the tool is brand new. The lid seats differently and it doesn't fracture like the old one.
There is a newly designed heat exchanger - more robust and doesn't leak or break. New valve and flow - the swing arm is gone. New filter screens and hop cages.
The Z itself has a better display, dones't look like my Pong game from 1975 anymore. The corners are rounded and more sleek - it's modular and goes vertical instead of horizontal.
 
Since the HEX/swing arm on mine broke after less than a year of moderate use, I am not surprised they re-engineered this component. I suspect it is costing them a fair amount to continue to replace them so they have an incentive to get them out of service. I've had no issue with the step filter, but I guess a lot of others have. I was hopeful that I could exchange mine for a few hundred bucks, but seems I have to pay almost what I paid for the original to get the new model, albeit at 5G vice 2.5G cuz I would want the larger batch size. Not sure if their price structure will actually be as advertised, because I cannot see people shelling out $4200 for a 5 gallon system after the initial preorder price goes up...it just isn't a reasonable price. Need to think about it, but very unlikely I send my current unit back for the new model. I will also wait and see on the new tool. Really, for me, all I need is the advanced editor...the rest of the interface they could get rid of...YMMV. All I need the tool for is to control the machine the way I want it controlled as I do all my recipes in Beersmith and don't plan to change that. Hopefully Pico doesn't stop supporting the older machine, and will continue to fix issues when they arise.
 
I'd really like to buy the new Z, but I just can't stomach the upgrade cost even at "half off". If they come back with this deal in the Fall, maybe, but too many unknowns right now. Also, there are a lot of other options out there for 5gal or larger electric brewing at this price point.
 
Do your mashes overflow? No crazy recipe here but can’t remember if this keeps happening to me (haven’t used in 6 months) did deep clean before and after dormancy. This is on a level surface but gran bed looks tilted. I can’t even find the drip

IMG_0553.jpg
IMG_0556.jpg
 
Looks like you are in need of leveling. I have had very little to no overflowing, but I have read at least a post or two on here where people did overflow. Could also have a broken sparge arm like I did...
 
Do your mashes overflow? No crazy recipe here but can’t remember if this keeps happening to me (haven’t used in 6 months) did deep clean before and after dormancy. This is on a level surface but gran bed looks tilted. I can’t even find the drip

View attachment 561118View attachment 561119

I had the exact same issue. Apply keg lube to the silicone "plugs" in your step filter - for me that's where wort was escaping & dripping down. Keg lube solved the problem.
 
Thanks I was actually thinking that, I could not for the life of me find where the overflow had occurred. Any tips on efficiency, I am wondering if it was the crush of the grain, targeted 1.054 with high efficiency mash (ha) but ended up with 1.046. I know historically when I was doing all grain batches, the crush affected efficiency
 
Thanks I was actually thinking that, I could not for the life of me find where the overflow had occurred. Any tips on efficiency, I am wondering if it was the crush of the grain, targeted 1.054 with high efficiency mash (ha) but ended up with 1.046. I know historically when I was doing all grain batches, the crush affected efficiency
I have the odd leaking. But it is small and rare. I do silicone the plugs. Clearly yours is not level and as such may be just coming out the top. Also noticed an uneven grain layer not that this would matter but not recommended.
.
As a rule I throw in a couple handfuls of rice hulls into every mash. Even before the Zymatic. It really provides for a thorough mash with complete circulation, especially for the Z which doesnt get mixed. No grain balls ever and it could well improve your efficiency.
 
For efficiency, you should increase the gap on your mill. Look through this forum as there are a number of posts that discuss it. For me, the change in gap and then implementing my own mash schedule where I mashed at around 146 and then 156, each for about 30 minutes, got me right where Beersmith predicts I would be...consistently. Best of luck!
 
For those of you doing a double mash, or reiterated mash, are you:

1) Mashing 1/2 the grain bill for 90 minutes at the desired temp,
2) Pausing
3) Dumping first half of grain, loading the 2nd half of grain
4) Mashing for another 90 minutes?

Do you do a mash out after the first 90 minute mash? I was thinking that would leave your water too hot for the 2nd round of mashing.

I have been trying to hit my target OG on a Belgian Tripel and I just can't get there (1.080). I saw this approach and thought it might help. I mill at .050 and have tried various HE mash schedules.

thx
 
For efficiency, you should increase the gap on your mill. Look through this forum as there are a number of posts that discuss it. For me, the change in gap and then implementing my own mash schedule where I mashed at around 146 and then 156, each for about 30 minutes, got me right where Beersmith predicts I would be...consistently. Best of luck!

Thanks! Re read through the thread. Interesting the increase of the gap helps. I always experienced the finer crush increasing efficiency on my old system (cooler/batch sparge) less than 40. Could just be getting used to the system. Beer overall came out great, a nice session brown with good body. I think I just need to get used to the efficiency difference and account for it. Or, alternatively get the stones and play with the advanced editor to tweak mashes and get some whirlpooling done.
 
Thanks! Re read through the thread. Interesting the increase of the gap helps. I always experienced the finer crush increasing efficiency on my old system (cooler/batch sparge) less than 40. Could just be getting used to the system. Beer overall came out great, a nice session brown with good body. I think I just need to get used to the efficiency difference and account for it. Or, alternatively get the stones and play with the advanced editor to tweak mashes and get some whirlpooling done.

Good beer in the end is a good thing. My experience is that a finer grind should always get you a higher efficiency as long as the water can move though it thoroughly. What happens is if it gets too fine the water short circuits around the tightly packed fines. Thus, poor mixing, dough balls, and the inevitable drop in E. I grind at right around 46 and add a couple handfuls of rice hulls to every batch. GREAT mixing, no high wort in the step filter either.
 
chris: great news! I found it odd that my efficiency went up with the coarser crush too, but moved on once it worked. ;>

DO NOT fear the advanced editor. It allows you to have complete control over the process and is the only thing I use when brewing with the Z. It is really simple once you figure it out...advice is to make the step names something logical so you can easily read it. Best of luck!
 
Ok..... first stab with advanced editor, I plan on whirlpooling through all 4 cages at the end. So stop, remove step filter add hops to all 4 compartments and put back in. does this make sense? Been looking at a ton of public recipes and pulled mostly from one of Annie's Recipes.
upload_2018-3-26_21-9-37.png
 
Interesting method. Why wouldn't you already have the whirlpool hops added into their respected cages from the beginning? Do you require all four cages due to sheer volume? If not, I'd just add them to the second compartment from the onset, since it seems you only have one bittering charge. Or are you concerned about running them over the 1st cage again? Lastly, you should add a 5 min drain to the end of your whirlpool.

I usually just add a bag into the keg after the boil for 30 mins while I clean the step filter. I give it a dunk and swirl every few mins. Then I start the immersion chill following that. Time is usually a top priority in my brew day. Find this method works really well for me.
 
Good call! Maybe I’ll do that for simplicity. Planning on whirlpooling for 3 ounces so definitely not too much. Makes sense when I think about whirlpooling on my old AG system all the hops were whirlpooled. Thanks for the tips! I think I’m overthinking the complexity/simplicity of this.

Cheers
 
Can anyone point me to a thread regarding the reliability of their Zymatic? Are there many common issues other than step filters cracking?
 
Just did my first advanced editor brew. Never going back to standard editor. I added a keg o ring to the top of my screen and and keg lube to the step filter (grommets?) and had 0 leaking. Looking forward to getting multiple brews in per month again. Thank you all!
 
Looks like you are in need of leveling. I have had very little to no overflowing, but I have read at least a post or two on here where people did overflow. Could also have a broken sparge arm like I did...
+1 on that. I had my recently fixed Zymatic brewing and had overflow. When I checked the set-up, the shelf on which it stood had shifted and was not longer level. Adjusted everything so that the Zymatic is now level and it works perfectly. Don't forget an upside down spoon or a keg lid o-ring on the top filter screen.

Stefan
 
chris: great news! I found it odd that my efficiency went up with the coarser crush too, but moved on once it worked. ;>

DO NOT fear the advanced editor. It allows you to have complete control over the process and is the only thing I use when brewing with the Z. It is really simple once you figure it out...advice is to make the step names something logical so you can easily read it. Best of luck!
And DONT forget - the advanced editor is wiped out if you do a 'normal' edit to your recipe. So be sure to print a copy of the advanced editor, just in case. And I always check it before starting a brew where I used advanced editor, JIK


Stefan
 
WTB a Zymatic. If anyone is planning on upgrading to the Z series and wants to get rid of their Z, or planned on selling it to PicoBrew; I would be interested in getting it off from you. Please PM if interested.
 
WTB a Zymatic. If anyone is planning on upgrading to the Z series and wants to get rid of their Z, or planned on selling it to PicoBrew; I would be interested in getting it off from you. Please PM if interested.
Location location location. Shipping is nasty. I wonder if we get a tax credit like a car trade in?
 
Location location location. Shipping is nasty. I wonder if we get a tax credit like a car trade in?
Far from you, NY, 13669 if you want to check the shipping cost to see if my offer would make sense.
 
Can anyone point me to a thread regarding the reliability of their Zymatic? Are there many common issues other than step filters cracking?

I just returned the Brewie (my second one in less than a month) and ordered a Zymatic, if nothing else, for the high level of support that PicoBrew provides. I learned that a product is as good as its support. I am concerned about the step filter cracks, but at least I know I can get it replaced if needed. Also, I purchased from MoreBeer, which stands behind their products second to none.
 
I just returned the Brewie (my second one in less than a month) and ordered a Zymatic, if nothing else, for the high level of support that PicoBrew provides. I learned that a product is as good as its support. I am concerned about the step filter cracks, but at least I know I can get it replaced if needed. Also, I purchased from MoreBeer, which stands behind their products second to none.

Humm, I have been looking at all of those other systems out there, and brewie is the only one that was supposed to come close to PicoBrew's appliances. I don't really consider the extract kit machines any competition. Could I bother you and ask why you would switch if it's not too indiscrete? Purely out of curiosity as a consumer. I was never more than vaguely curious about brewie, I would not have ordered that one.
 
Humm, I have been looking at all of those other systems out there, and brewie is the only one that was supposed to come close to PicoBrew's appliances. I don't really consider the extract kit machines any competition. Could I bother you and ask why you would switch if it's not too indiscrete? Purely out of curiosity as a consumer. I was never more than vaguely curious about brewie, I would not have ordered that one.

Lbarouf, I agree with you. For my needs, I would never consider extract brewing. I have been doing all-grain for many years. I own a Braumeister BM20 Plus, which is a professional grade unit from Germany and love it for my 5 gallon batches and its programability and ease of manually controlling the process. I also own a Pico Pro used for small test batches (1.3 gallon). What I was looking as an addition (not a replacement), was a fully automated machine that I could set up in the morning and walk away till finish to make smaller batches (2.5 gallon). Specifically I was looking for a Z, but it would not be available until late in the year. The Brewie also seemed to fit the bill, and had some additional features, such as automated cooling/chilling, auto water intake and draining, auto cleaning, etc. But for those features you pay a price, especially if the company does not provide adequate support. My experience with it (like with many other owners) was bad. First unit had power on problems and had to be exchanged. Second unit worked once and the second brew had boiling temperature issues and water leaks from the valves. In addition due to the undersized heating element (or software programming) , it mad for a very long brewing day (about 3 hours longer than with my Braumeister). Luckily, I purchased from MoreBeer, that has 60 day return and a year warranty, and after two defective units, I decided to call the quits. At that point I went back to the original plan and ordered a Zymatic since I could not get a Z. I knew of some of the complaints with the stepper arm and step filter, but their excellent support and reputation convinced me. I have not yet received it, so the jury still out. Sorry for the long response.
 
Lbarouf, I agree with you. For my needs, I would never consider extract brewing. I have been doing all-grain for many years. I own a Braumeister BM20 Plus, which is a professional grade unit from Germany and love it for my 5 gallon batches and its programability and ease of manually controlling the process. I also own a Pico Pro used for small test batches (1.3 gallon). What I was looking as an addition (not a replacement), was a fully automated machine that I could set up in the morning and walk away till finish to make smaller batches (2.5 gallon). Specifically I was looking for a Z, but it would not be available until late in the year. The Brewie also seemed to fit the bill, and had some additional features, such as automated cooling/chilling, auto water intake and draining, auto cleaning, etc. But for those features you pay a price, especially if the company does not provide adequate support. My experience with it (like with many other owners) was bad. First unit had power on problems and had to be exchanged. Second unit worked once and the second brew had boiling temperature issues and water leaks from the valves. In addition due to the undersized heating element (or software programming) , it mad for a very long brewing day (about 3 hours longer than with my Braumeister). Luckily, I purchased from MoreBeer, that has 60 day return and a year warranty, and after two defective units, I decided to call the quits. At that point I went back to the original plan and ordered a Zymatic since I could not get a Z. I knew of some of the complaints with the stepper arm and step filter, but their excellent support and reputation convinced me. I have not yet received it, so the jury still out. Sorry for the long response.

Ha, indeed it would appear we have similar situations and requirements. Will you want to trade your braumeister and zymatic (and perhaps the pico) for a Z1 or Z2 later? Today it would make sense for me to have a Zymatic and a Pico pro, but once the Zs are available... I may want to trade. We'll see, but I may end up in your situation. Especially if I can get a used Zymatic at a good price.
 
Ha, indeed it would appear we have similar situations and requirements. Will you want to trade your braumeister and zymatic (and perhaps the pico) for a Z1 or Z2 later? Today it would make sense for me to have a Zymatic and a Pico pro, but once the Zs are available... I may want to trade. We'll see, but I may end up in your situation. Especially if I can get a used Zymatic at a good price.

Probably would not trade the Braumeister. Reason being is that the Braumeister is not dependent on the internet, but is remotely controlled if needed via WiFi, it is automatic and capable of programing 10 separate steps for mashing, mashing temps and time, boiling times and temp, multiple hops and adjuncts additions, etc, but at the same time it allows you to take full manual control on the fly and change everything as you brew. It is also extremely simple and reliable and has second to none support. The Zymatic and Pico Pro offer wonderful automation features and great support, and the Z is just like the Zymatic with an improved step filter and arm and capability to expand. For me, they complement each other but... NO, I would not trade all the others for a Z.

Frankly, I was very hopeful of the Brewie, the machine looks wonderful and it is build like a tank with solid stainless. Unfortunately it did not live to expectations and the support was not there. I considered the Brewie+ but I don't believe that it is that much different (software) and the support is the same issue. I just like new toys and innovation.
 
Picobrew's support isn't all that "high level" in my opinion. Two to three day response times, only support is via email and if you have a problem that is more than a cleaning issue...good luck getting them to help too much. Send your machine back and wait 2 to 3 weeks to get it fixed. The one nice thing is that they are honoring the warranty even several years later, so they are not all bad, but one guy in particular over there shouldn't be working in customer support...

I have owned the Zymatic since June of 2016, never had a problem until only recently, which is why I jumped on the opportunity to preorder the Z2. But in Jan 2018 I started having erratic boiling behavior and poor draining issues, which a lot of other folks on their forums are complaining about. Since I couldn't get the level of support I was looking for, I opened my Zymatic, tore it down to the bare bones and fixed it myself. When I asked about spare parts they told me they don't sell parts to users, but after looking at the skeleton of the unit, the only thing you can't replace off the shelf is the control board. About all you could do with that would be to hack in a RPi and write code yourself.

Opening it up did come with a consequence though. They banned me from the forums because now I "know too much" and they don't want that information getting out to other users.

Picobrew has basically abandoned its Zymatic users and if you have access to their forums you can go read about all of the disgruntled folks they have over there. They have made a whole bunch of promises over the years and have not really kept their end of the bargain. No one really talks bad about them because they use draconian tactics to keep them quiet.

As to the need for an internet connection, I know a guy who has a way around that so you can run offline.
 

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