PicoBrew Zymatic

[Thorrak]

In my experience the foam only becomes an issue with chilling over 30 mins or so. Other than that I only occasionally have seen anything at all in that trap

I haven't chilled since I bought my corny pillar (Advanced edit, remove the chill cycle in favor of just adding the drain to the end of the last hop boil) and haven't even used the foam trap for the past dozen or so brews. I'm sure one day this will come back to bite me, but for now it seems to work.

 

[danbass]

Long time no see HBTalk! While I've been brewing over the past few years successfully with my 50a 220v two vessel system, we recently had our first child and took 12 months off between brew sessions. I've got 10 gallons in primary at the moment, but I've been thinking a lot about down scaling now that I've got a full family. As such, I'm trying out my efforts rehabbing an "as-is" Zymatic. I was hoping someone might be able to tell me what Voltage/Amp rating is on the fuse in the back of the unit. The one that was delivered to my house this morning doesn't have a fuse, it's not listed in the Zymatic manual, and while I've seen a few references to replacement fuses in the initial kickstarter units, I havent tracked down the specs. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jrb03]

Question on the drain/pause option. I was brewing tonight and about 20 minutes into the heat to mash, I realized I forgot to put my spoons on the top screen. So I used the drain/pause option for the first time, it drained for at least 5 minutes after it was empty, but never paused. I only had an option to continue or exit brew, the pumps kept pumping air. When I chose continue it just went back to heat to mash. So I drain/paused again and pulled the step filter out with the pumps running, added my spoons, reinserted and continued on fine. Is this how the drain/pause works or am I missing something? I assume you don't want to remove the step filter with pumps running, but not sure.

Anyone have any insight on how the drain/pause feature works?

 

[stpauliboy]

Long time no see HBTalk! While I've been brewing over the past few years successfully with my 50a 220v two vessel system, we recently had our first child and took 12 months off between brew sessions. I've got 10 gallons in primary at the moment, but I've been thinking a lot about down scaling now that I've got a full family. As such, I'm trying out my efforts rehabbing an "as-is" Zymatic. I was hoping someone might be able to tell me what Voltage/Amp rating is on the fuse in the back of the unit. The one that was delivered to my house this morning doesn't have a fuse, it's not listed in the Zymatic manual, and while I've seen a few references to replacement fuses in the initial kickstarter units, I havent tracked down the specs. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you haven't found the fuse info yet - mine has a GSA 15A 250V ceramic fuse in it.

 

[doublea]

I haven't chilled since I bought my corny pillar (Advanced edit, remove the chill cycle in favor of just adding the drain to the end of the last hop boil) and haven't even used the foam trap for the past dozen or so brews. I'm sure one day this will come back to bite me, but for now it seems to work.

I just got a corny pillar and have been debating the best way to use it. Wouldn't chilling with the corny pillar in keg serve to recirc and thus cool faster? Is there the reason you don't do this? You also have more options for whirlpool hops if you use chill cycle I would think (put hops in cages).

 

[Denny]

I just got a corny pillar and have been debating the best way to use it. Wouldn't chilling with the corny pillar in keg serve to recirc and thus cool faster? Is there the reason you don't do this? You also have more options for whirlpool hops if you use chill cycle I would think (put hops in cages).

The corny pillar itself will nor recirc, if I understand what you're saying. I do leave the Z recircing while I use the pillar, which speeds things up a bit but is not necessary.

 

[tommyk421]

I just got a corny pillar and have been debating the best way to use it. Wouldn't chilling with the corny pillar in keg serve to recirc and thus cool faster? Is there the reason you don't do this? You also have more options for whirlpool hops if you use chill cycle I would think (put hops in cages).

I don't run the chill cycle. I complete the brew ion the Z, disconnect my brewing keg with pre-boiled CornyPillar in it, take it to the sink and run the water through the CornyPillar. every so often (three or four times in 5 mins) I just give the keg a good shake which evens out the wort.

In only 6 brews, that JaDeD CornyPillar has saved me about 6 hours of "Watching-pot-boil" attention using other chilling methods. Gold.

 

[tommyk421]

Question on the drain/pause option. I was brewing tonight and about 20 minutes into the heat to mash, I realized I forgot to put my spoons on the top screen. So I used the drain/pause option for the first time, it drained for at least 5 minutes after it was empty, but never paused. I only had an option to continue or exit brew, the pumps kept pumping air. When I chose continue it just went back to heat to mash. So I drain/paused again and pulled the step filter out with the pumps running, added my spoons, reinserted and continued on fine. Is this how the drain/pause works or am I missing something? I assume you don't want to remove the step filter with pumps running, but not sure.

In the HELP menu item, there's a handy "Continue Last Brew" command. So if you've drained, or paused, or otherwise adjusted the normal flow of things, that does a pretty good job of getting you back.

 

[stonebrewer]

After my 10th brew of the year with the Z....some others on my other systems, but 10 on the Z is why I bought it...to brew more often with less hassle. I will say that about every other brew day I have run into an issue...not always with the Z but related to it. That said, I am pretty happy to have that many brew days compared to last year AND I have been able to consistently brew fantastic, repeatable beers. Also want to shout out to the Pico team for some great updates to the software this year...very happy with the improvements! Keep 'em coming! Cheers!

 

[cdt5058]

Hey fellow Zymatic owners, so, I ran the machine with a rather small grain bill at ~5 pounds.

I went climbing and came back just in time for a `Fatal Error #1` on the machine right before it heated to a boil. I pulled out the step filter and made sure everything was in place when I noticed that the corners of the grain bed were still dry... Is this something that I should be concerned about? This is my 3rd brew on the machine and the first two went amazingly well.

I've rinsed the machine after every session.

 

[jrcrilly]

Probably an air leak in the water in line. The step filter should always fill to overflow. If it doesn't, the water flow rate was too low.

 

[cdt5058]

Probably an air leak in the water in line. The step filter should always fill to overflow. If it doesn't, the water flow rate was too low.

Just pressure tested the keg and it's retaining pressure... So, not a leak with the keg. I'm going to re-do the last mash prior to the boil step...

The mash should be fully covered for every brew, correct? Is there any other places to troubleshoot the pump? I'm seeing air just about every second or less going thru the sample port clear tubing.

 

[sante]

Any thoughts on how the Picobrew site calculates the efficiency? It seems there are two options, the single infusion, and the high efficiency mash, with the HE one really boosting the extraction. Is it just the longer mash, or does that added dough in and mash out really bring up the extraction that much? I'd like to be able to do custom mash schedules, but the Picobrew recipe crafter makes it seem like I'll never get the points I'll need unless I'm close to maxing out the bin for a 1.060 beer.

 

[alaric10000]

Just pressure tested the keg and it's retaining pressure... So, not a leak with the keg. I'm going to re-do the last mash prior to the boil step...

The mash should be fully covered for every brew, correct? Is there any other places to troubleshoot the pump? I'm seeing air just about every second or less going thru the sample port clear tubing.

First couple things I'd try (after sending an email to info@picobrew) would be to unscrew the black cap on the hose and check that the inline filter is clean (and then that it's fully seated and tightened), and disassemble the posts on the brewing keg to make sure there's not a partial obstruction there.

 

[jrcrilly]

Is it just the longer mash, or does that added dough in and mash out really bring up the extraction that much?

Those do seem to make a difference, but they also "cheat" and reduce the innitial water volume, thus producing a somewhat smaller and thus higher gravity yield for a given grain bill.

 

[jrcrilly]

The mash should be fully covered for every brew, correct? Is there any other places to troubleshoot the pump? I'm seeing air just about every second or less going thru the sample port clear tubing.

Yes, it should be. That air is coming from somewhere, and is reducing the flow rate. Most common leak sources are the inline filter housing, the input bulkhead connector nylon "nut", and the beer post O ring.

 

[cdt5058]

Most common leak sources are the inline filter housing, the input bulkhead connector nylon "nut", and the beer post O ring.

Thanks, John.

I checked the nylon connector nuts and inline filter this morning. Nothing seemed to be off there. I'll have to double check the beer post o-ring once I'm home from work. I'm also going to deep clean the machine tonight and possibly try a smaller, 1-gallon batch tomorrow to ensure the grain gets covered.

Hopefully, it's one of the above and nothing more serious...

 

[Denny]

Just pressure tested the keg and it's retaining pressure... So, not a leak with the keg. I'm going to re-do the last mash prior to the boil step...

The mash should be fully covered for every brew, correct? Is there any other places to troubleshoot the pump? I'm seeing air just about every second or less going thru the sample port clear tubing.

When I get that error, it's always bene an incorrectly connected or blocked keg post.

 

[jrb03]

Thanks, John.

I checked the nylon connector nuts and inline filter this morning. Nothing seemed to be off there. I'll have to double check the beer post o-ring once I'm home from work. I'm also going to deep clean the machine tonight and possibly try a smaller, 1-gallon batch tomorrow to ensure the grain gets covered.

Hopefully, it's one of the above and nothing more serious...

A one gallon batch is not possible. I believe ~2.1 gallon is smallest possible but they don’t recommend going smaller than 2.5. Not only should your grain get covered, the wort should completely fill the grain compartment and overflow into the pass-through. It should look like it’s about to spill on your floor. It sounds like you have a major air leak, if you don’t find the issue on your own make sure and contact [email protected] before you try to brew again.

 

[sante]

Those do seem to make a difference, but they also "cheat" and reduce the innitial water volume, thus producing a somewhat smaller and thus higher gravity yield for a given grain bill.

But both shows as 2.5g batch size. So where is the extra volume going on a single infusion mash? Do you end up with more than 2.5g?

 

[jrb03]

But both shows as 2.5g batch size. So where is the extra volume going on a single infusion mash? Do you end up with more than 2.5g?

No, the other way around. You end up with less on a high efficiency mash.

 

[stonebrewer]

Any thoughts on how the Picobrew site calculates the efficiency? It seems there are two options, the single infusion, and the high efficiency mash, with the HE one really boosting the extraction. Is it just the longer mash, or does that added dough in and mash out really bring up the extraction that much? I'd like to be able to do custom mash schedules, but the Picobrew recipe crafter makes it seem like I'll never get the points I'll need unless I'm close to maxing out the bin for a 1.060 beer.

I have found that if I use the Advanced Editor and do a multistep mash for longer than an hour that I get the efficiency calculated by BeerSmith for a 1 hour mash. I regularly do a 1.064 beer in the Z with 40 minutes at 148 and 40 at 156. Get great head retention and thick Belgian lacing on every beer done with this mash regime, and it hits my target on the nose every time.

 

[stonebrewer]

Hey fellow Zymatic owners, so, I ran the machine with a rather small grain bill at ~5 pounds.

I went climbing and came back just in time for a `Fatal Error #1` on the machine right before it heated to a boil. I pulled out the step filter and made sure everything was in place when I noticed that the corners of the grain bed were still dry... Is this something that I should be concerned about? This is my 3rd brew on the machine and the first two went amazingly well.

I've rinsed the machine after every session.

How much water was in the keg to start with?

Always check the areas mentioned in the above posts for blockage or gunk. Doesn't take much to throw the machine off. Also, I check pressure during the brew by putting the syringe on the sampling port...if it pushes out the plunger part (keep your hand on it or you will get a mess!) then something is clogged and needs to be cleaned.

 

[cdt5058]

Thanks to everyone for the help - it wound up being an incorrectly seated keg post. The o-ring was shredded a bit and allowing air in.

I started a deep clean to diagnose the issue and the Z is humming away beautifully now.

 

[BarleyPopBrewer]

What's the main difference between this one that is $1,000 and the $500 model?

 

[jrcrilly]

What's the main difference between this one that is $1,000 and the $500 model?

If you mean between the Pico and the Zymatic (closer to $2000 than to $1000) there are two major differences. Batch size 2.5 gallons rather than one gallon, and the Z permits you to use your own ingredients to make whatever you want whenever you want (which is far less expensive than the Picopacks).

 

[alaric10000]

Or if you're talking about the Pico Pro vs. the upcoming Pico C, it's mostly using standard ball lock kegs instead of a new proprietary keg. If you plan on using a kegerator at all or want to be able to upgrade pieces of your setup via Amazon or a LHBS, the Pro is your option.

 

[truthrider]

I have a Pico that I've used once. I also have a zymatic. I'd like to sell the Pico (with a picoPack). Where is the best place to sell it? I live in the SF Bay Area. It's a cool unit, but my preference is to stick with the Z.

Thanks

Marty

 

[cdt5058]

I have found that if I use the Advanced Editor and do a multistep mash for longer than an hour that I get the efficiency calculated by BeerSmith for a 1-hour mash. I regularly do a 1.064 beer in the Z with 40 minutes at 148 and 40 at 156. Get great head retention and thick Belgian lacing on every beer done with this mash regime, and it hits my target on the nose every time.

I wanted to figure this out and was able to pull the source code from the Picobrew website and dig into it a bit more.

Your efficiency appears to be calculated based on which Mash Profile you choose to utilize.

If you use the Single Step Infusion Mash, the efficiency on the Zymatic is hardcoded to 0.55. However, the amount of H2O and mashThickness appear to be calculated & updated based on the grain bill. In this single step infusion mash, the grainLossPerLb is hardcoded to 0.104 - which affects the amount of H20 calculation needed in your recipe. Which also affects the mashThickness calculation of your recipe.

If you utilize the High-Efficiency Multi-Step Mash, the efficiency on the Zymatic is calculated based on your mashThickness, which is calculated from the amount of H20 needed. In the high-efficiency multi-step mash, the grainLossPerLb is hardcoded to 0.06. This, just like above, is utilized to then calculate the H2O needed and the mashThickness of your recipe.

The efficiency is then utilized to calculate out the gravity point contributions of each row of grain and so on...

I also found that a good chunk of this code was repeated and could've been pulled out into a function call... If anyone from Picobrew is looking for a programmer to maintain this code, just let me know.

If anyone else is interested in looking at the source code for the recipe crafter, you can view the version as of posting here. The source code that I was reading from Line 1965 to Line 2003.

If people are interested in learning more from the script, I wouldn't mind looking into a calculation further for you all.

 

[swimIan]

I wanted to figure this out and was able to pull the source code from the Picobrew website and dig into it a bit more.



Your efficiency appears to be calculated based on which Mash Profile you choose to utilize.



If you use the Single Step Infusion Mash, the efficiency on the Zymatic is hardcoded to 0.55. However, the amount of H2O and mashThickness appear to be calculated & updated based on the grain bill. In this single step infusion mash, the grainLossPerLb is hardcoded to 0.104 - which affects the amount of H20 calculation needed in your recipe. Which also affects the mashThickness calculation of your recipe.



If you utilize the High-Efficiency Multi-Step Mash, the efficiency on the Zymatic is calculated based on your mashThickness, which is calculated from the amount of H20 needed. In the high-efficiency multi-step mash, the grainLossPerLb is hardcoded to 0.06. This, just like above, is utilized to then calculate the H2O needed and the mashThickness of your recipe.



The efficiency is then utilized to calculate out the gravity point contributions of each row of grain and so on...



I also found that a good chunk of this code was repeated and could've been pulled out into a function call... If anyone from Picobrew is looking for a programmer to maintain this code, just let me know.



If anyone else is interested in looking at the source code for the recipe crafter, you can view the version as of posting here. The source code that I was reading from Line 1965 to Line 2003.



If people are interested in learning more from the script, I wouldn't mind looking into a calculation further for you all.

There might be some issue with posting their intellectual property. Might want to pull your link until you hear from them directly...

 

[cdt5058]

There might be some issue with posting their intellectual property. Might want to pull your link until you hear from them directly...

Pull might've been the wrong phrase - their source code is hosted un-minified on their website. So, anyone in the world could look at the code that runs the recipe crafter page.

I haven't bothered looking for the code that the Arduino inside of the actual Zymatic runs.

 

[swimIan]

Pull might've been the wrong phrase - their source code is hosted un-minified on their website. So, anyone in the world could look at the code that runs the recipe crafter page.



I haven't bothered looking for the code that the Arduino inside of the actual Zymatic runs.

My mistake. I didn’t realize this.

 

[Thorrak]

Pull might've been the wrong phrase - their source code is hosted un-minified on their website. So, anyone in the world could look at the code that runs the recipe crafter page.

I haven't bothered looking for the code that the Arduino inside of the actual Zymatic runs.

My (potentially only) gripe about the Zymatic is that they haven't released the source code to the Zymatic despite the kickstarter originally claiming it would be open source.

Honestly, only gripe. Love that machine.

 

[cdt5058]

My (potentially only) gripe about the Zymatic is that they haven't released the source code to the Zymatic despite the kickstarter originally claiming it would be open source.

Honestly, only gripe. Love that machine.

Huh - I didn't know that. I backed a refurb version from their latest kickstarter and never thoroughly read their first Kickstarter.

I know that there are a few Github repositories that reverse engineered various API calls to/from the Zymatic. You can view Alexa PicoBrew here or the HTTP API here.

 

[mparaizo]

Hello Z-Brewers, first congrats for the thread. I loved to read about the magic your guys do with your Z.

I wonder if anyone knows of an used Zymatic for sale (in Houston/TX or willing to ship), or a good/fat discount code for a new? I saw some in earlier posts, but of course they are not valid anymore.

Cheers,

 

[Denny]

You can get $300 off with the code PICODENNY until Jan. 1 2018

 

[cdt5058]

Hello Z-Brewers, first congrats for the thread. I loved to read about the magic your guys do with your Z.

I wonder if anyone knows of an used Zymatic for sale (in Houston/TX or willing to ship), or a good/fat discount code for a new? I saw some in earlier posts, but of course they are not valid anymore.

Cheers,

Hey there, I would look at using searchtempest.com - this site allows you to search all Craigslist posting in a certain mile radius. So, if you don't mind driving, you may be able to find a great deal! Or even try to convince someone to ship you their used version.

I also saw you were actively talking to someone in Texas from the For Sale forum with one for sale. Best of luck!

 

[doublea]

Hey all, I picked up a used unit and have finally got my first batch on it brewed. Everything appeared to run smoothly, but in reality it seems the temps were low. I have been talking with support about it but have not yet had luck resolving so I figured I would reach out here too.

Long story short, the wort temp reaches target at all the mash temps (~150) mash out (170), and "boiling (207), but then when I measure the temperature of the actual wort with a laser thermometer it reads much lower (around 150-170 max). My suspicions were re-enforced when I saw the graph:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GRrqmGlMDnd5SELL2

You can see the temp drops immediately ever time it goes to a new instruction.

Has anyone else had any similar issues? This isn't normal, right? I tried an IPA and got no isomerization.

Any ideas on debugging?

thanks!

 

[alaric10000]

The drop at the beginning of each step is normal, and you're going to get some temp differential based on where the sensors are vs. where you're measuring, but that's definitely not what the boil is supposed to graph like. It should look a lot more like the mash, with no dramatic spikes on either line, and the heat loop and mash steadily a little bit apart. I'm no expert, but I'd run a few cleans back to back with Finish Powerballs and see how much gunk you get out of the machine.

Here's my graph for my last IPA that hit gravity perfectly and tastes plenty hoppy to me:

 

[Thorrak]

I primarily use 2.5g kegs I got from AIH for serving Zymatic batches. I do not ferment in them though. I either use the 5gal brewing keg or the 3.5gal SSBrewtech Brewbucket mini for fermenting. I prefer using the brewbuckets as trub and hops always seem to clog up the out tube on the fermenting keg. Much easier to fit the 2.5gal kegs in the bottom of the beer fridge too.

Out of curiosity, do you still use Brewbucket Minis for fermenting? Are you still loving them?

I'm contemplating trying one out just because I can add a thermowell to it more reasonably than to a corny keg.