Picobrew Z

[Brolie]

I went from pico z2 to a brewie and then settled with a grainfather. i was looking for true automation and guess i will be for some time but let me tell you. the grainfather is pretty slick so far. very impressed (much higher quality than the mash&boil i owned previously and sold) the grain father connect alerts me on my phone when something is needed and thats about as automatic as ill get for now but at least im not thirsty while waiting for the knuckleheads at pico to get their **** together. at this point i believe they are flat out lying to us regarding the new z units. they are no where near ready if this is the type of stuff they are just discovering.

 

[Mike Howard]

Delays and Excuses.... This is what happens when you don't properly estimate your ability to produce a product. It seems they totally missed the mark and now are trying to rush the product out the door because of all the cancellations and complaints. This is turning into a nightmare that 6 months from now we are all going to be complaining about...yikes.

 

[Fluffy Beard]

There's always other options too like the Unibrau, SS Brewtech 1V, or Grainfather. There are so many great options out there, that it's hard to justify the Z. I've heard people who like the RoboBrew and the price is definitely right. Personally, I like the SS Brewtech or Unibrau because you can always expand the system to a 3 vessel later on.

 

[Virginia_Ranger]

I ended up going RoboBrew due to price which allowed for me to get some more accessories (7.6 gallon kegmenter anyone?)

 

[Trevor Mack]

At such small quantities there really is no advantage of a 3 vessel from my understanding, but the flexibility and future growth potential of the SS brewtech has got me thinking again about cancelling my order.

 

[drgonzo2k2]

So glad I canceled my Z2 when I did and went with the Braumeister. Best money I have every spent on brewing equipment. About to brew my 10th batch on it this weekend, and I could not be happier.

 

[Brewfreedom]

So glad I canceled my Z2 when I did and went with the Braumeister. Best money I have every spent on brewing equipment. About to brew my 10th batch on it this weekend, and I could not be happier.

Speidel - german co. Gives an s about quality, customer needs and knows a thing or two about brewing and manufacturing. Long history in brewing. Polar opposite of shysterbrew.

 

[Mutant]

PicoBrew needs to improve their software to design recipes. What's up with your advance design getting reset to defaults if you go back in to update the base design? There are other flaws in their software that are very annoying.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Have a feeling this next update (almost 2 days late) is going to be about how the government shutdown delayed parts for the systems that were to be delivered last week... I'm preparing to send my second cancel email and this time actually cancel for a refund.

 

[sbbeebe]

PicoBrew needs to improve their software to design recipes. What's up with your advance design getting reset to defaults if you go back in to update the base design? There are other flaws in their software that are very annoying.

This has been a problem since the very beginning. As a software developer, I can't imagine the fix to this particular problem is very difficult... unless there are significant design issues with the software. But whether it is a design issue or not, this is really unacceptable. PB's refusal or inability to fix it speaks volumes.

I have since moved on to GrainFather, and for the brewing I do, I couldn't be happier.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Guess I stand corrected by words and pictures to the contrary. From the update posted today units are awaking pickup by the UPS truck.

Chupalt, as always keep us posted when it arrives... Guessing email stated next week or end of this week delivery for you?

 

[Thorrak]

What’s interesting is that originally my ship date was a month out from @chupalt yet in their latest email they are showing mine as shipping the “week of Feb 1st” — which is actually a 1 week improvement over a few emails back (was previously Feb 8). I’m not complaining if it arrives in the first batch - just surprised they would shorten the lead time given their recent setbacks!

 

[chupalt]

Sorry if I dropped the ball, but my Z1 shipped late Friday and is supposed to be here tomorrow. I’ll try to get some pics up tomorrow night. I’ll be brewing this weekend

 

[Trevor Mack]

Looks like someone found the Z manual uploaded on the PicoBrew website under "Resources > Z > Manual" www.reddit.com/r/picobrew/comments/al7pzk/pico_z_manual_now_available_online_just_noticed

Direct link

 

[Thorrak]

Looks like someone found the Z manual uploaded on the PicoBrew website under "Resources > Z > Manual" www.reddit.com/r/picobrew/comments/al7pzk/pico_z_manual_now_available_online_just_noticed

Direct link

Nothing too exciting from a quick read, aside from the fact that it looks like the main unit is expected to be user assembled. I’ll be curious to see if @chupalt has any issues with assembly!

I was hoping they’d ultimately go for the ArborFab-style grain cage for the step filter, but I’m not shocked they didn’t. I’m not too bothered though as I bet ArborFab won’t mind making it themselves.

 

[Trevor Mack]

In yesterday's update I assumed they were going with user assembled devices. Those boxes (including the ones with clear addresses on the right side... Uhoh!) we're definitely not the size I'd expect for a fully assembled Z unit.

I'm guessing there are 3 boxes: first being the head control unit, second being the filter and casing, while the third is kegs and accessories. This also would be extendable for Z2+ units (add 1 or 2 boxes for each additional unit)... Though we have seen two different pictures at this point: early concepts had a different head unit whereas latest Twitter images from Annie showed the fronts which literally we're just Z1s stacked on top of each other. Both have advantages and disadvantages I guess... Though we do know the 120V vs 240V requirements and that we would need to return the head units to upgrade to Z2+. So what that makes me think is that just the electronics and back panel are different between Z1 and Z2+ units while front units and size are equivalent (not what was in the concept photos on the site or during marketing).

 

[chupalt]

My Z1 has arrived (at least the first 2 boxes). The 3rd box contains the keg and will be here tomorrow.

Everything is together and I've added the Z to my picobrew account. I'll be doing the first rinse tomorrow and brewing at least one batch this weekend.

Everything looks really high quality and it's surprised me how small it is.

The one word of caution that I'll provide is to take extreme care when screwing the heating module to the ingredients module. I took extra care when screwing it together including keeping screws loose until I got them all in and it was difficult to get the two back screws on the sides lined up properly. My unit is fine, but if you're not really careful you will strip those screws.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Thanks for the detailed description and photos chupalt! Here's to having a smooth brewing experience this weekend

 

[jcaiola]

Very happy to see that someone is getting their unit and hoping that it works as designed. Thanks for keeping us posted on your experience. Regardless of my canceling, I’d like to those that hung in there have great success.

Keep posting!

 

[Munchman]

Thanks for the info and pics. Curious if you got any of the free goodies delivered?

 

[chupalt]

Thanks for the info and pics. Curious if you got any of the free goodies delivered?

No goodies. Doug from Picobrew said those will be coming later this year. They are focused on getting units out right now. I think we’ll be getting an extra keg cozy because even that was the standard one.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Folks at Picobrew have updated their "beta recipe crafter" known as BrewPen. This means if you had imported anything there it is now gone and you will need to create your own ingredient database as they allow us to not be tethered to their production line of picopacks.

www.brewpen.com

 

[gamerc]

Any updates on the brewing process?

 

[chupalt]

I brewed a Belgian dubbel today based on the recipe from Brew Like a Monk. Everything was super easy. Nothing eventful at all. The machine is super quiet compared to my Pico but I can't compare it to the Zymatic because I don't have one. I intended to grab a gravity sample from the sample port, but I missed the timing so I didn't get it. Here are some pictures of the brew process.

 

[Mike Howard]

I'm more interested in that first Z2, since the Z1 had better be an improvement over the Zymatic as a gen 2 model.

 

[Trevor Mack]

I'm just glad to see that units are shipping and more importantly are being reviewed by real people in the wild.

 

[ldaniels]

I'm more interested in that first Z2, since the Z1 had better be an improvement over the Zymatic as a gen 2 model.

Is the Z2 anything more than two Z1s that optionally run in parallel? I am very interested in as much real world Z1 usage over the next few months while I wait for my Z2 that is currently scheduled for the last week of April. I look at the Z2 as simply being either twice as good or twice as bad as the Z1.

 

[Mike Howard]

I don't think the Z2 has two brains...IDK for sure, but as I understand it there is one Master unit and one Slave unit. If that is true then there are sure to be issues with timing if things get out of whack.

 

[jcaiola]

That is my understanding also. Multi-batch yes, but single brain.

 

[Brewfreedom]

I don't think the Z2 has two brains...IDK for sure, but as I understand it there is one Master unit and one Slave unit. If that is true then there are sure to be issues with timing if things get out of whack.

I'll wager money they don't even know how its supposed to work yet given the struggle/CF to get the single headed units out.

 

[ldaniels]

After looking at the images again, I agree that it looks like the rotary control and display is not replicated as I had thought so it does look like it only has one brain. I still believe that it is most important that a Z1 works well because that is a refection on the quality of the mechanicals and process. The Z2 is a big deal as well but problems with the Z2 beyond any issues in the Z1 should be solvable with software updates and should not involve he mechanics and process.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Unless you look at Annie's test photos that were posted to her Twitter account. https://twitter.com/Buffalowing/status/1080888786827923456?s=19

These photos of real production / test units show that a Z2 is literally (from what I can tell) just two Z1s stacked on top. Not what the PicoBrew.com site has for marketing materials (design mockups vs actual photos). I'd love to be corrected as these could be early test devices... as we don't have any confirmed data from Picobrew about these units and no evidence of any shipping yet.

 

[ldaniels]

That image is more what I thought it was going to be. What I understood was there is an additional header piece that was described as the power controller that takes the incoming power and breaks it down between the 2, 3 or 4 Z's. The Z1 just plugs directly into 20amp 120v power. Z2-4 start with 20 or 30amp 240v power and breaks that down, likely with individual internal breakers for the individual Zs.

If it really is two individual Z1s each with their own controller, testing may be bypassing the power controller and just have them individually plugged into 120v power.

Either way, I still think that Z2-4 can only ever work as good as a Z1 and therefore how well the Z1 works is critical. Issues with Z2-4 are more likely solved with software updates if there is any coordination between the individual Zs.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Yes I definitely agree with you that the brewing process wouldn't be drastically different between a Z1 and Z2-4. Electronics yes due to higher power requirement listed in specifications. Software / Firmware might be slightly different if one unit is the master and the second is a slave, but not drastic would just need to select the "destination Z* unit" where for Z1s there isn't an option so default is provided. Hardware wise I'd imagine there might be ears or other tabs to help with lining up the units vertically.

In my early on support requests and questions one can upgrade from a Z1 to a Z2-4 unit by just sending back the top "brain" controller and PicoBrew would replace (unknown cost) with the larger unit compatible controller.

I'm glad and excited to see Z1 comments, feedback and pictures hitting the internet in larger amounts over the coming weeks. Maybe this week (since we missed last week update) will contain Z2 test shots and software previews.

 

[Mike Howard]

My guess is that Annie is using an "in-house" only test unit while the software department struggles to make the Master/Slave functionality work. Just stacking two Z1's on each other and calling that a "new" system is what I would actually expect Picobrew to do, but even I don't think they are THAT stupid.

If the Z2's use the Master/Slave functionality the software will need to be somewhat different, due to the Rotary Selector. It will need additional menu items and a way to view the "in-process" information. Not too hard, but definitely something to think about. It will also need an enhanced recovery mode and possibly other routines to handle separate functions between the units. The web interface will also need to change so you can view both units at the same time.

 

[Thorrak]

My guess is that Annie is using an "in-house" only test unit while the software department struggles to make the Master/Slave functionality work. Just stacking two Z1's on each other and calling that a "new" system is what I would actually expect Picobrew to do, but even I don't think they are THAT stupid.

If the Z2's use the Master/Slave functionality the software will need to be somewhat different, due to the Rotary Selector. It will need additional menu items and a way to view the "in-process" information. Not too hard, but definitely something to think about. It will also need an enhanced recovery mode and possibly other routines to handle separate functions between the units. The web interface will also need to change so you can view both units at the same time.

But... isn’t that basically what they were selling? I always thought the Z2 was just a Full Z1 + 220v power distribution + 1-3 “control-less” brewing units.

It always sounded like the Z2 was going to be two Z1 batches, brewed concurrently but separately, pumped into a single fermentation vessel post-brewing.

 

[Mike Howard]

Yes, a Master and 1-3 Slaves...it was never going to be what Annie is showing in her Twitter feed (two stacked Z1's). If what Annie is showing is the real Z2, I feel very sorry for Z2 owners. Complete Sham. Here's hoping it is what the website marketing material shows.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Yes that tweet is very misleading.

Though that said the web interface doesn't have to show both at the same time, would be good but not needed for functionality. Rotary dial and display yes, but there could be two displays and only one rotary dial so you can see times and status data at a glance of both without interaction with the unit... But at that point why not just master/master (stacked Z1s). This wouldn't be the first pre-order that changed based on "user complications" as an excuse to do things differently.

 

[Thorrak]

Yes that tweet is very misleading.

Though that said the web interface doesn't have to show both at the same time, would be good but not needed for functionality. Rotary dial and display yes, but there could be two displays and only one rotary dial so you can see times and status data at a glance of both without interaction with the unit... But at that point why not just master/master (stacked Z1s). This wouldn't be the first pre-order that changed based on "user complications" as an excuse to do things differently.

Z4 = 4 stacked Z1s would be great, TBQH. eBay becomes your friend if you ever want to go down 2.5 gallons.

 

[ldaniels]

Yes, a Master and 1-3 Slaves...it was never going to be what Annie is showing in her Twitter feed (two stacked Z1's). If what Annie is showing is the real Z2, I feel very sorry for Z2 owners. Complete Sham. Here's hoping it is what the website marketing material shows.

I have to say that what I see in Annie's picture is what I am hoping for, certainly not a sham.

Below are quotes from the Z FAQ and are why I bought a Z2. My ideal Z2 is 2 relatively independent units, maybe with some syncing of the recipe between the two units when I occasionally brew 5gal split between the two Zs.

Most of my brewing is going to be small batches with maybe two similar but not identical recipes on the two Zs. Other times it might be only a 1Z batch and other times it could be two unrelated recipes brewed simultaneously.

My other hope is that a single Z will brew 1gal or 1.5gal batch sizes that are as consistently brewed as a 2.5gal batch. Once I refine a recipe and I want a full batch, I can then do a 2Z 5gal batch. I do not generally need 2.5gal of beer in order to determine what I want to try next.

This is what I think I was buying and hope that I get. What is in Annie's picture is what I want.

Z FAQ
How is Z different than Zymatic?
... The Pico-Z’s modular design allows stacked “parallel brewing” approach – you can brew up to 10 gallons of the same beer in one session (with Z4), or multiple different beers at the same time. ...

Can Z2 through Z4 brew different recipes in each compartment at the same time?
Yes, each compartment can brew different beers at the same time ( Z2 can brew two, Z3 can brew three, Z4 can brew four).