PicoBrew Pico users

[macgyuver]

App has been in beta, invite only, for some time now.

 

[Lbarouf]

*sigh* yes indeed. They decline help as well.

 

[effetk]

Hello all!

New user here. I'm back into brewing after a long hiatus, thanks to the Pico. I've read this thread for hours, but I do have a few questions left...

1 - Back when Pico started, they said they would make smaller yeast pack. Was that ever done, or are people still pitching half of the same packs as before?

2 - What's the consensus on dry hopping? 5 days, after the fermentation?

3 - Any general advice on how to convert a regular 5 gallons recipe to a PicoPak recipe? I just divide each ingredients according to the new size, or is the ratio different for some ingredients (like hops)?

4 - I want to buy a bottling kit before my first batch is ready, but the one from Picobrew is back-order for 2 months (also, I'd rather have smaller bottles). What's the size of tube I should get for the siphon if I have the Pico C? I can't find that info anywhere... I know I could use anything, but I like the idea of hooking up on the Pico C keg directly.

5 - The PicoFerm is monitoring temp and pressure, but are those readings affecting the time before the beer is ready at all on BrewHouse? Right now, it mostly looks like it's following the recipe time and pitch time.

Thanks!

 

[macgyuver]

Hello all!

New user here. I'm back into brewing after a long hiatus, thanks to the Pico. I've read this thread for hours, but I do have a few questions left...

1 - Back when Pico started, they said they would make smaller yeast pack. Was that ever done, or are people still pitching half of the same packs as before?

2 - What's the consensus on dry hopping? 5 days, after the fermentation?

3 - Any general advice on how to convert a regular 5 gallons recipe to a PicoPak recipe? I just divide each ingredients according to the new size, or is the ratio different for some ingredients (like hops)?

4 - I want to buy a bottling kit before my first batch is ready, but the one from Picobrew is back-order for 2 months (also, I'd rather have smaller bottles). What's the size of tube I should get for the siphon if I have the Pico C? I can't find that info anywhere... I know I could use anything, but I like the idea of hooking up on the Pico C keg directly.

5 - The PicoFerm is monitoring temp and pressure, but are those readings affecting the time before the beer is ready at all on BrewHouse? Right now, it mostly looks like it's following the recipe time and pitch time.

Thanks!

Welcome, we are all the same here, Brewers in way shape or form. I also brewed for awhile then took a break due to time constraints. Now back to brewing due to PicoBrew.

1 - packets are still the same, we are pitching 1 teaspoon. The rest of the pack is thrown or used elsewhere.

2 - most are dry hopping in the keg, I have a drop hop screen hopper that I throw into my keg. Not the serving keg but a ball lock keg.

3 - splitting down from 5 gallon is hard but that is what home brewing is. Trial, error, test see if it is what you want. The freestyle crafter for PicoBrew is limited.

4 - there are several options for bottles on amazon. I have 12oz and 24oz flip top bottles. The auto siphon can be custom built to match your bottles, I use a 1gal auto siphon from my 1gal mead kit for both bottle sizes.

5 - A common misconception for the Pico ferm and the fast fermenter is it speeds up the fermentation process. It does not, you are better off following you normal fermentation schedule. Fast fermentation or pressure fermentation only allows for higher temps for fermentation without “much” off flavors.

I hope that this helps, if you have any other questions please feel free to ask. Welcome to the community, there is a ton of knowledge here.

 

[Lbarouf]

Agree with macguyver here. I would add that the only benefit of fast ferment i saw was lagers could ferment in my basement without cooling. Real convenient for me.
Also, I now quad brew... 4 batches of the same in a row. using a quarter of the yeast for each batch. 3 full packs of yeast I can use for my other recipes. And welcome to the forum. Share and ask.

 

[effetk]

Thanks for the info!

I've done my reading AFTER starting my first batch, so I used the whole pack of yeast. I hope it won't be off (it's seems to be ok sometimes, and bad other times when you use the whole pack, from what I've read).

For the siphon, I guess my goal was to use something to plug in the Pico C keg, like their bottling kit do, but it's true that a regular siphon would work, and the tubing size would be irrelevant to the Pico C keg...

I guess I'll add that to my buying list (along with a corny keg and adapters for serving the beers I want to drink right away).

 

[macgyuver]

You can always build a connection for the C keg, some tubing is really all it would take to fit the out post then run to bottle, if you want cut off use a bottle wand on bottle side. Or a pinch valve on tubing.

 

[effetk]

You can always build a connection for the C keg, some tubing is really all it would take to fit the out post then run to bottle, if you want cut off use a bottle wand on bottle side. Or a pinch valve on tubing.

Good idea, thanks!

 

[Lbarouf]

I can send a picture of what mines look like. If you have a ball lock adapter, all you have to do is use the adapter with something like I built.
If not, then you need something to connect. I have not clue unfortunately what the Pico C kegs look like, never seen one and I am using the standard corny kegs.

 

[effetk]

@Lbarouf: I'd like that picture next time you bottle, yes. Thanks, it's appreciated.

I also have another question, for anyone interested in the nitty-gritty details of homebrewing.

I understand why we can wait overnight before pitching the yeast without risking contaminations: the Pico C is a closed loop, there's a long boiling process, and when we close the keg at the end, it's done while the wort is still hot, and hot air flowing up from the two holes probably won't let contaminant get in the keg. It's not a perfect system, but I'm pretty sure it's safe.

What I don't understand though is why the long cooling time isn't an issue for DMS creation. Is there a chemical process I'm not aware of? Is quick chilling the wort for DMS issues overrated? Do you chill your keg in an ice bath when doing lighter beers?

Anyone got an idea?

 

[Lbarouf]

For what it's worth, I've done both without seeing any difference other than time. When doing multiple matches, it may be convenient to do everything the same day. Brewing, cooling, pitching, set and done. If I brew an evening a pak batch, I often leave it cooling overnight in the basement with the red plug in the lid. The brief moment that I open the lid the next day to pitch, has never caused a dimethyl sulfides related taste. Knock on wood perhaps.Wort chilling never produced better beers nor adverse effects for me. I used for convenience if I knew I would be away for instance, and won't be able to pitch in a short time. I always pitch within 24 hours.

I'd like to hear anyone else chime in as well, I'd love to hear any science behind it.

As for the pic, it's not in action. About 3 ft tubing, one end has a ball lock connector, the other end a picnic tap with a tube at the spout to reach the bottom of any bottle I would use (I sometimes bring a 1gal growler).

 

[Lbarouf]

I brewed a lager, and when ready I placed it outside to keep. I have been keeping it outside as it's the same temperature as my fridge at the moment. It's 3gal, so double batch. It forced carb it for 8 days at 20 psi, lowered to 4psi to serve. 1st day, party, serving it was without an issue. We drank about half the keg. 2 days later, I disconnect the co2 and bring the keg to a house party and serve it there. Again, no issue except a little bit of lees that I guess from moving the keg. Carbonation level is perfect, creates a nice neck that lasts. Get the keg back, always at the same 4 psi level, with about a quarter left, but now the beer is flat. No neck, no carbonation. I am puzzled as to why a sealed keg that the manifold shows keeping a decent pressure is now flat. Anyone has an idea?

If it helps, the beer is kept around 32-35 degrees. CO2 tank is near full, and also at the same temperature. The gaz line is bevlex 1/4" I.D - 1/2" O.D crimped with oetiker clamps, no leaks confirmed via submersion.

 

[effetk]

Thanks for the pics! Seems easy enough, and I realize I might even have most of what I need already!

 

[macgyuver]

So, Z-Paks, 2.5 gallons of your favorite PicoPaks.... Some thoughts.
1 - is it all loose material or an actual Pak
2 - wonder if we can play with the recipe or tweak the procedure
3 - price?
I know there is more that will come to me later but will start with these.

 

[Lbarouf]

Would a 7.5Gal fermenter be big enough to ferment double Z/Zymatic batches?

 

[Lbarouf]

So, Z-Paks, 2.5 gallons of your favorite PicoPaks.... Some thoughts.
1 - is it all loose material or an actual Pak
2 - wonder if we can play with the recipe or tweak the procedure
3 - price?
I know there is more that will come to me later but will start with these.

For Question 1, if you check the Z's updated page you will see the "pak". Looks like a pre ground mix in a clear bag, so I can only deduct it will be ready to use measured ingredients to be poured in the step filter. Which is perfect for me. As for 2, anyone's guess (Unless Denny wants to chime in) but I will expect they will include the same menu option of the Pico and allow an option to alter the recipes with a ABV and bitterness simple tweak.

 

[Lbarouf]

Anyone knows who makes the PicoBrew corny kegs?
Can you brew using another keg size? Providing that you fill it with the right amount of water that is.... (I'm thinking of trying a 3gal one)

Last but not least... I'm thinking of combining and then splitting batches. I would like to double brew a recipe, combine them into 1 keg, and then split in 3 to ferment in 1Gal carboys. Anyone see an issue with this? For the yeast, should I pitch calculated amount for 1gal separately, or could I pitch in the 3 gal, mix manually and then split into 3? I am planning on pitching 1/6th of the pack in each carboys.

thanks,

 

[macgyuver]

Would a 7.5Gal fermenter be big enough to ferment double Z/Zymatic batches?

Yes - Z/Zymatic are 2.5 gallon each unless you combine them which is what the Z2,3,4 are doing. Then the size goes up but even with the Z2 you will have enough room.

For Question 1, if you check the Z's updated page you will see the "pak". Looks like a pre ground mix in a clear bag, so I can only deduct it will be ready to use measured ingredients to be poured in the step filter. Which is perfect for me. As for 2, anyone's guess (Unless Denny wants to chime in) but I will expect they will include the same menu option of the Pico and allow an option to alter the recipes with a ABV and bitterness simple tweak.

Thank you for reminding me to check the Z page, I haven't looked at it since I signed up for the Z2... It does look like loose material which is great, should make it easy to change things up a little.

Anyone knows who makes the PicoBrew corny kegs?
Can you brew using another keg size? Providing that you fill it with the right amount of water that is.... (I'm thinking of trying a 3gal one)

Last but not least... I'm thinking of combining and then splitting batches. I would like to double brew a recipe, combine them into 1 keg, and then split in 3 to ferment in 1Gal carboys. Anyone see an issue with this? For the yeast, should I pitch calculated amount for 1gal separately, or could I pitch in the 3 gal, mix manually and then split into 3? I am planning on pitching 1/6th of the pack in each carboys.

thanks,

I don't know who makes the kegs, I will say you can find them cheaper than at PicoBrew. Williams has them for 99 and you can catch the 20% off coupons which makes them roughly 80 each. Also Check AIH they run deals sometimes as well. I use 5g for everything except single batch and brew keg. I have read many times and got emails answered from PicoBrew that the keg sizes the units come with is what you should use due to the pumps not being sized to push/pull anymore water than that around. (Extra Wear and Tear) That being said I use a 2.5 gallon Torpedo keg to brew with my Pico-S. I fill it with the correct amount and let it go, have not had any issues. I also do multiple paks at a brew session 2 - 4 depending on what I am needing. I brew into the 2.5g and transfer to the other vessel, be it a 5g keg or my 7.5g conical. From there I pick the yeast needed per the calculations. I have not separated the brew back out to different fermentors so I can't say what to do there.

 

[OhDatOneGuy]

Hello, I'm still on page 10 of this thread but between what i have gleamed so far and what I've read on Facebook's pico user group. I'm already considering making a Youtube video that would cover a revised set of instructions. Do you think this would be helpful or a good idea for newbies? I plan on getting up to date with this thread and then making a list of bullet points of beneficial info to go over in the video. I kept looking for more helpful videos on YouTube but most consisted of people setting it up, following instructions and then being only mildly satisfied or disappointed with the results.

 

[tbader2]

Question for a potential buyer.

Ignoring indgredients, what aspects of the brew can be fully customized (I.e temp etc)

If not much is restricted, what customization aspects are limited (ignoring ingredients)?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Lbarouf]

Yes - Z/Zymatic are 2.5 gallon each unless you combine them which is what the Z2,3,4 are doing. Then the size goes up but even with the Z2 you will have enough room.



Thank you for reminding me to check the Z page, I haven't looked at it since I signed up for the Z2... It does look like loose material which is great, should make it easy to change things up a little.



I don't know who makes the kegs, I will say you can find them cheaper than at PicoBrew. Williams has them for 99 and you can catch the 20% off coupons which makes them roughly 80 each. Also Check AIH they run deals sometimes as well. I use 5g for everything except single batch and brew keg. I have read many times and got emails answered from PicoBrew that the keg sizes the units come with is what you should use due to the pumps not being sized to push/pull anymore water than that around. (Extra Wear and Tear) That being said I use a 2.5 gallon Torpedo keg to brew with my Pico-S. I fill it with the correct amount and let it go, have not had any issues. I also do multiple paks at a brew session 2 - 4 depending on what I am needing. I brew into the 2.5g and transfer to the other vessel, be it a 5g keg or my 7.5g conical. From there I pick the yeast needed per the calculations. I have not separated the brew back out to different fermentors so I can't say what to do there.

Thanks, I have split the wort and pitched separately. We’ll see.... i sure hope it won’t be wasted.

 

[Lbarouf]

Question for a potential buyer.

Ignoring indgredients, what aspects of the brew can be fully customized (I.e temp etc)

If not much is restricted, what customization aspects are limited (ignoring ingredients)?

Thanks for the help.

Short answer: you can only adjust alcohol level and bitterness. Everything else is hard coded.

Longer answer:
The Pico only allows you to adjust ABV and bitterness within a certain rage for each pack.

Now, adding adjuncts to the keg during the brew is neither recommended nor supported but in theory technically possible.

All the brew parameters such as temp are recipe controlled by the recipe creator.

As you can guess, it’s a closed loop system. It works well and as intended. It will create a quality wort that should result in what the brewer intended you to be tasting. You still need to properly ferment, but that part will go well should you follow all the guidance provided here.

I hope this helps.

 

[tbader2]

Short answer: you can only adjust alcohol level and bitterness. Everything else is hard coded.

Longer answer:
The Pico only allows you to adjust ABV and bitterness within a certain rage for each pack.

Now, adding adjuncts to the keg during the brew is neither recommended nor supported but in theory technically possible.

All the brew parameters such as temp are recipe controlled by the recipe creator.

As you can guess, it’s a closed loop system. It works well and as intended. It will create a quality wort that should result in what the brewer intended you to be tasting. You still need to properly ferment, but that part will go well should you follow all the guidance provided here.

I hope this helps.

What features are customizable in the recipe creator?

And none of those features can be adjusted on the system itself? You can’t change brew temp after you order a pak with the recipe creator?

 

[Lbarouf]

What features are customizable in the recipe creator?

And none of those features can be adjusted on the system itself? You can’t change brew temp after you order a pak with the recipe creator?

If you mean freestyle, you start with either water or an official beer style. You have a list of grains to choose from to alter the base style, yeast is static, based on style and the hops based on aroma bitterness and flavour.

No temperature tweaking whatsoever.

For the temperature you need to “upgrade” to the Zynatic or Z. Those give you much more flexibility in the recipe... you make it for scratch. The Pico is more for brewing known recipes/products/styles with little tweaking. It gives you predictable results in return. And, repeatable. In my case, with the size of the appliance and the fact that I did not have to stay in front of it while it brewed... to get back to brewing. Of course I miss doing my own full recipe, but the freestyle give me a bit of it.

Is this you were looking for?

 

[Lbarouf]

I was wondering... when they advertised the pico back in 2015 Kickstarter, they were saying :

Pico’s brew cycle takes about 2 hours to complete. After the brew cycle is finished, the beer will need to ferment for about a week before consumption. So, from PicoPak to pint, the whole process will take around a week.

I wonder what the hell they had in mind. I can't think of a single beer style, fastferment or not, that would be ready, carbed, and fermented in 7 days. What am I missing? FastFerment should have been called pressurised ferment, or hot ferment in my opinion. Sure, I'd give it a try even a super low ABV beer. But I believe it's impossible to achieve. Anyone tried?

 

[Oleary]

I was wondering... when they advertised the pico back in 2015 Kickstarter, they were saying :

I wonder what the hell they had in mind. I can't think of a single beer style, fastferment or not, that would be ready, carbed, and fermented in 7 days. What am I missing? FastFerment should have been called pressurised ferment, or hot ferment in my opinion. Sure, I'd give it a try even a super low ABV beer. But I believe it's impossible to achieve. Anyone tried?

I haven't tried one week, but my first few batches were at about 2.5 weeks (2 in primary, .5 carb). Too green even then. I can't imagine what it would taste like after 7 days. Might be an interesting test though. Bottle and open one a week to see/taste the changes.

 

[Lbarouf]

Has anyone tried krausening their batches? I'm contemplating to do so with a freestyle pak. It helps since I will know the F.G (how do you find the O.G and F.G of paks?) and can calculate the amount of fermenting wort to add to the conditioned keg. I plan on aging it for something like 6 months.

For anyone who did it, was it worth it? Would krausening benefit of a oak cask with a breather?

 

[jrb03]

I was wondering... when they advertised the pico back in 2015 Kickstarter, they were saying :

I wonder what the hell they had in mind. I can't think of a single beer style, fastferment or not, that would be ready, carbed, and fermented in 7 days. What am I missing? FastFerment should have been called pressurised ferment, or hot ferment in my opinion. Sure, I'd give it a try even a super low ABV beer. But I believe it's impossible to achieve. Anyone tried?

You must not of been around in the early days! Lots of complaints because of their optimistic timelines. It took a while to get people to exercise patience but the results speak for themselves. I still think the reason they continue to instruct pitching an entire package of yeast in these small batches is due to their fast time lines. Don’t do it.

 

[Lbarouf]

You must not of been around in the early days! Lots of complaints because of their optimistic timelines. It took a while to get people to exercise patience but the results speak for themselves. I still think the reason they continue to instruct pitching an entire package of yeast in these small batches is due to their fast time lines. Don’t do it.

It took a while to get going as my first machine was damaged and I had to get it swapped. Logistics were still being worked on at Picobrew. Cant complain. I may have tried 1 or 2 batches, not sure, with a full sachet of yeast, but recall joining this site around page 4 of this thread or so ( old numbering) and chatted and read at one point the lazy yeast comment.

I’m still curious as to “is it possible “ and what would it taste like. I would guess a 7 day brew to taste like bud light! I would rather have water.

 

[Oleary]

I currently use a corona mill for the rare BIAB batch. Any guesses on whether that might work with the new Z's? My understanding is it (the Z) will work more like a C/S/Pro (changed the arm out)?