Phenomenal example of malt vs hop bitterness

[danbrewtan]

Founders dirty bastard (malt bitterness)

Vs.

Alaskan ESB (hop bitterness)

We stumbled upon an incredible comparison of two beers at our BCJP class here in Houston that displayed the difference between hop and malt bitterness brilliantly.

They have an apparent bitterness that is very similar but derived from two different sources. The malt bitterness is more rounded and rolls over the tongue while the hop bitterness almost "attacks" your tongue all at once.

Both beers are great, don't be afraid to buy a 6-pack of each to try this comparison!


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[Xpertskir]

I don't think you can make far reaching generalizations on the quality of bitterness with a 2 beer sample. Water is the single most important factor when it comes to the type of bitterness tasted in a beer whether the bitterness is created with malt and/or hops.

 

[danbrewtan]

You're completely missing my point. I'm not making any far reaching generalizations about bitterness; rather, suggesting a beer comparison to illustrate the difference between malt bitterness and hop bitterness. Great for anyone who's looking to refine their palate further.

And you won't be able to make hop bitterness taste like malt bitterness (and vice versa for that matter) by just changing your water profile... Hope you weren't making that generalization...


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[progmac]

what is 'malt bitterness?' like the bitterness of coffee/black malts?

 

[AnOldUR]

Read somewhere that we can't distinguish between different types of bitterness, just the level of bitteness. Astringency may be coming into play here?

 

[progmac]

Read somewhere that we can't distinguish between different types of bitterness, just the level of bitteness. Astringency may be coming into play here?

it's an interesting topic. advocates of FWH claim a 'smoother bitterness.' i've never understood that. advocates of skimming the brown krausen say the same thing. in the case of removing the brown krausen, i've often wondered if it is really a "smoother bitterness" or simply less bitterness. in the example of FWH, i wonder if it is just some kind of wishful thinking.

 

[danbrewtan]

what is 'malt bitterness?' like the bitterness of coffee/black malts?

Yes, the bitter chocolate/coffee flavors. Also roasted malt.


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[danbrewtan]

it's an interesting topic. advocates of FWH claim a 'smoother bitterness.' i've never understood that. advocates of skimming the brown krausen say the same thing. in the case of removing the brown krausen, i've often wondered if it is really a "smoother bitterness" or simply less bitterness. in the example of FWH, i wonder if it is just some kind of wishful thinking.

I'd be very surprised if the dirty bastard had any FWH since there is no hop aroma. When you taste these two, there is definitely a smoother bitterness in the dirty bastard. It's more distributed through the flavor profile. With the Alaskan ESB, the hop bitterness pops more. There's a definite part of the flavor profile where the hops show up all at once. There's also a noticeable difference with how the two bitternesses play on your tongue. The "malt bitterness" is more on the center of your palate while the hop bitterness is more on the sides of your palate near the back.

On a side note, this comparison only works if you have beers with comparable bitterness levels (not IBU). Comparing the nuclear bomb bitterness of an IIPA to the subtle bittersweet chocolate bitterness of a brown ale won't do.


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[Xpertskir]

You're completely missing my point. I'm not making any far reaching generalizations about bitterness; rather, suggesting a beer comparison to illustrate the difference between malt bitterness and hop bitterness. Great for anyone who's looking to refine their palate further.

And you won't be able to make hop bitterness taste like malt bitterness (and vice versa for that matter) by just changing your water profile... Hope you weren't making that generalization...


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Hop and malt bitterness are different, but the quality of the bitterness(something you commented on) is controlled by the water, in either case. Using only 2 beers with likely very different water profiles to distinguish between the two is IMO a bit lacking.

To the above point, malt bitterness is typically astringency.

 

[danbrewtan]

Hop and malt bitterness are different, but the quality of the bitterness(something you commented on) is controlled by the water, in either case. Using only 2 beers with likely very different water profiles to distinguish between the two is IMO a bit lacking.



To the above point, malt bitterness is typically astringency.

I hear what you're saying. I'm coming from more of a tasting perspective where we can really only speculate about the water profile. From a brewing perspective that makes sense. Choose the water that complements the bitterness you'd like to achieve.

I hesitate to agree with astringency as the descriptor here since I consider that more of a flaw. That's a moot point I suppose.

Anyway, go try it. It's a great comparison


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