pH discrepancy?

[kjm13]

Hi all,
I posted this in the brewing software forum, but doesn't look like anyone is reading that today, and I'm brewing tomorrow. So, sorry for the duplicate post, but if anyone knows the answer, that would be great!

Hi all,

I just input my recipe into bru'n water, and brewer's friend, and got 2 very different mash pH estimations. (I'm a nurse and a bit of a control freak, so I check everything at least twice) Bru'n water predicted 5.1, and brewer's friend predicted 5.45. Which one is right? I keep going back to see if I entered something differently in one of the 2 programs, but I don't see anything. It seems no two programs, web sites etc give the exact same instructions or predictions, which is fine, but this is a really big difference.

Which one should I trust? Or should I split the difference and go from there?

Any and all input is welcome

thanks!

 

[Iseneye]

If you're not actually measuring the mash pH at room temperature then the calculators are only educated estimates so it is not possible to be a control freak only using these. If it's your first brew I would split the difference.

 

[Moose_MI]

I've only recently started to use both and have got similar results between the 2 but maybe you found something. Could you share your inputs so that folks could try to determine what you are seeing?

 

[mblanks2]

Hi all,
I posted this in the brewing software forum, but doesn't look like anyone is reading that today, and I'm brewing tomorrow. So, sorry for the duplicate post, but if anyone knows the answer, that would be great!

Hi all,

I just input my recipe into bru'n water, and brewer's friend, and got 2 very different mash pH estimations. (I'm a nurse and a bit of a control freak, so I check everything at least twice) Bru'n water predicted 5.1, and brewer's friend predicted 5.45. Which one is right? I keep going back to see if I entered something differently in one of the 2 programs, but I don't see anything. It seems no two programs, web sites etc give the exact same instructions or predictions, which is fine, but this is a really big difference.

Which one should I trust? Or should I split the difference and go from there?

Any and all input is welcome

thanks!

I've never used Brewers Friend, so I can't speak to that but I do find Bru'n Water extremely accurate and reliable. I have used it enough to trust it for me not to even use my PH meter if necessary.

 

[sky4meplease]

I use Brewers Friend and typically reduce the amount of acid it calculates otherwise my PH runs a little low. It has never fallen out of range but can go .10 below my target.
That wouldn't be a big deal but I am kind of a control freak. [emoji39]

 

[kjm13]

I've only recently started to use both and have got similar results between the 2 but maybe you found something. Could you share your inputs so that folks could try to determine what you are seeing?

Here is what I am looking at...
thanks!

 

[monkeyman1000]

I am not an expert but have been messing with my water for the past 2 years. I started using Bru'n Water, Brewer's Friend and EZ water ( I used to be an ICU nurse so I get the control freak ). I found EZ water usually came in high. Bru'n water would be close on some and Brewer's friend was closer on others. I still use both and usually split the difference. The next time I brew the same recipe I make adjustments and get even closer to target. The software gets you close but the malsters don't supply the needed info on all the types of malt to make a more robust prediction. I use RO water and build from there and by the second time brewing the same recipe I am close enough to my target to satisfy me. You really need a good pH meter if you want to know what you are getting. You can also do a small test mash before you make your main batch but that seemed like too much work for me.

 

[sky4meplease]

I don't know how it affects your calculations but the two sheets have different color contributions from your grain bill.
Additionally, the water:grain ratio is different between the two.
Brewers Friend allows you to add custom fermentables so you can specify PPG and Lovibond. That may allow you to get the two sheets to compare apples to apples.
These figures can change from the maltster as well. You can get this information from the manufactures website typically in the specifications for the individual malts or from your LHBS though I don't know how often either updates.
For this reason it is a good idea to have a PH meter on hand and the capability to make adjustments on the fly.
This may be why a lot of folks shoot for 5.4 PH when formulating recipes because it is middle of the road and offers a little leeway in either direction without throwing you out of the ideal range.

 

[kjm13]

I don't know how it affects your calculations but the two sheets have different color contributions from your grain bill.
Additionally, the water:grain ratio is different between the two.
Brewers Friend allows you to add custom fermentables so you can specify PPG and Lovibond. That may allow you to get the two sheets to compare apples to apples.
These figures can change from the maltster as well. You can get this information from the manufactures website typically in the specifications for the individual malts or from your LHBS though I don't know how often either updates.
For this reason it is a good idea to have a PH meter on hand and the capability to make adjustments on the fly.
This may be why a lot of folks shoot for 5.4 PH when formulating recipes because it is middle of the road and offers a little leeway in either direction without throwing you out of the ideal range.

That's a good point about the lovibond numbers. I'll try changing them to match in BF. BW doesn't seem to allow decimals in some fields.

I don't understand how the grist to water ratio is different. Both are set with 12lbs of grain to 4gal of water. I think BW may be giving an exact number and BF is rounding?
Anyway, I'm going to run with this and assume a mash pH of ~5.3, and start saving my pennies for a pH meter!
Thanks!

 

[Gavin C]

In your Bru'n water you have carapils listed as a base malt. It needs to be changed to a crystal malt. That may change your figures.

 

[kjm13]

In your Bru'n water you have carapils listed as a base malt. It needs to be changed to a crystal malt. That may change your figures.

Hi Gavin,
I tried that. It didn't change the value.
thanks though.

 

[kjm13]

after ALL that, I just realized my scale only measures to whole grams!
So, not going to be exact as I was hoping for.
Brew and learn...

 

[IslandLizard]

after ALL that, I just realized my scale only measures to whole grams!
So, not going to be exact as I was hoping for.
Brew and learn...

Pile enough on the scale to get a reading that's 10 times what you want. Then measure how many teaspoons that is, divide by 10 and voila, your amount in tsp!

Even better using a higher factor (20-50x). As long as the scale has good repeatability and is reasonably accurate at the measured range. You could cross check with a "precisely measured" volume of water (narrow tall graduate) if you don't have a calibration weight.

 

[sky4meplease]

I don't understand how the grist to water ratio is different.

I think you have to be careful when opening the "Mash Chemistry and Brewing Water Calculator" from your recipe in Brewers Friend. It seems to carry over your "Mash Guidelines" information and round it up or down thus changing your grist ratio.
Also, it is best to "Update Calculations" often because there are 13 areas that contain information every time you make a change.