partial grain practical question

[Janx]

I'm with Walker on this and I'm starting to dislike how the discussion is going.

If the water happens to be around 155F, the steep will become a mash since you will generate sugars from the starches in the 2-row. You can call it a partial mash since you don't get all your fermentables from these grains. But it is still a mash. To me there is not much of a gray area here, only a difference in efficiency.

Kai

Right...I agree. It's a mash. No grey area. I agree with your post above, too. Walker's examples were all of half-assed mashes...not steeps.

The difference is very very simple...

 

[Walker]

I'm not trying to get any one to agree with my 'invented' terms. I was just trying to understand what the big difference was between steeping something like 2-row and 'mashing' it.

and I did put smileys in there to show that I was being good natured and curious.

I'll refrain from saying what I really think of your condescending responses and just leave it at this: I must not know anything about steeping, because I've apparently been "half-ass" mashing this whole friggin time without knowing it.

oh wait.. it's only a mash if I use 2-row, which I don't always do. sometimes I just use adjunt grains (which would be a steep, I guess), but my proceedure is always the same.

thanks for clearing that up and trying to belittle me, Janx.

-walker

 

[Monk]

so, it seems as though some guys are calling it mashing if you use certain techniques, while others call it mashing if a certain reaction is taking place in the grain. Is "mashing" a term that refers to the reaction or the technique? I'm sorry, but I've got to admit I'm kinda happy I stirred up what was apparently an old debate--you guys are teaching me a lot as you argue. Thank you.

 

[Janx]

thanks for clearing that up and trying to belittle me, Janx.

Walker, you are not a grain brewer and yet you are trying to speak with authority on the subject. In doing so, you are being VERY confusing to anyone new to the subject. It's not helpful to anyone.

The way you brew, whether you use 2-row in your steep or not, is extract brewing. You do not count on getting any fermentable sugars from your steep. The grains are for flavor. Conversion and efficiency aren't important to you because your fermentables come from extract. Sure, some conversion may take place. But I wouldn't call it a mash unless you are getting some percentage of your fermentables from the grain.

If you get into grain brewing, my guess is you'll understand the difference. But what you were saying about them being the same thing is very misleading to anyone seriously wanting to tackle grain brewing.

 

[Kaiser]

sometimes I just use adjunt grains (which would be a steep, I guess), but my proceedure is always the same.

I don't want to open another can of worms but, to my knowledge, adjucts refers to any unmalted grains. They should reqire mashing to contribute more than proteins and some starch to the beer.

But then again, I don't use adjucts in my beers and would not know how to handle them properly.

I assume Walker means specialty grains when he says adjuncts.

Kai

Edit: I guess it's late and we are just trying to kill some time until we can go home.

 

[Ivan Lendl]

no real brewer 'steeps'...i dont even 'steep' my tea anymore, i use a single-step infusion mash of 1/2 cup 210F h2o for 5 minutes, i then sparge the tea bag with a thimble full of 168F water...( i get 72.3 percent 'tea' utilization this way)

 

[Walker]

Walker, you are not a grain brewer and yet you are trying to speak with authority on the subject. In doing so, you are being VERY confusing to anyone new to the subject. It's not helpful to anyone.

If you get into grain brewing, my guess is you'll understand the difference. But what you were saying about them being the same thing is very misleading to anyone seriously wanting to tackle grain brewing.

Ok, fine, but I think you could have found a nicer way of getting your point across.

I was generally confused about the whole thing and presented my personal take on it for your comments. Correct me where I am wrong, that's what I wanted out of it, but... please... try to be civil.

-walker

 

[Walker]

I assume Walker means specialty grains when he says adjuncts.

yup, that's what I meant. Thanks for correcting me, Kai.

-walker

 

[Janx]

Ok, fine, but I think you could have found a nicer way of getting your point across.

I was generally confused about the whole thing and presented my personal take on it for your comments. Correct me where I am wrong, that's what I wanted out of it, but... please... try to be civil.

-walker

My apologies. I took your stance to be arguing a point that I did not agree with, and even so, I could have phrased myself more politely.

I'm sincerely sorry for any hard feelings.

 

[Walker]

S'alright.

We can kick each other in the nuts if we ever meet and then share a homebrew.



-walker

 

[Monk]

no real brewer 'steeps'...i dont even 'steep' my tea anymore, i use a single-step infusion mash of 1/2 cup 210F h2o for 5 minutes, i then sparge the tea bag with a thimble full of 168F water...( i get 72.3 percent 'tea' utilization this way)

What do "real brewers" do, then? (I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, this is a non-rhetorical question.) I'm confused.

 

[Janx]

Ivan was joking around...giving those of us who were taking this debate too seriously a hard time...

Is 1PM too early to have a homebrew on a workday?

 

[Monk]

Considering you're "killing time till you can go home", I take it you're on the east coast. It's only 1:15 where I am I'm not even half done. Boo.

 

[Walker]

I think Ivan was just trying to inject some humor into what was becoming a venomous thread.

I don't like the term "Real Brewer" because that is certainly going to offend anyone who brews with a different style.

We are all real brewers, from the Mr.Beer beginner to the 10 barrel , 4-tier HERMS All Grain Mash Master.

The fact that we are here, we love beer, and we make it ourselves makes us Real Brewers.

-walker

 

[Walker]

Oh.. and my beer is better than yours.

I'm willing to change this opinion, but you're going to have to send me some of your beer for that to happen.

-walker

 

[Kaiser]

And BTW, when I was at a tour of a local brewery last weekend, a Real Brewer said that they steep the grains to get the sugars out of them.

To his defence, the audience was mostly college kids and he wanted to keep it simple, I guess.

Kai

 

[jeffg]

heh....i believe you mean muslin.....

Damn, now that was funny.
typing a little too fast today.
I have to admit i was somewhat surprised to see this thread at 5 pages! I will let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Walker]

And BTW, when I was at a tour of a local brewery last weekend, a Real Brewer said that they steep the grains to get the sugars out of them.

To his defence, the audience was mostly college kids and he wanted to keep it simple, I guess.

Kai

Yup.. and this same Real Brewer said he used bleach to clean bottles.

What would usmcruz say!?

-walker

 

[Kaiser]

Yup.. and this same Real Brewer said he used bleach to clean bottles.

Oh no, you said the B-word.
Let's get ready for another 5 pages.

Kai

 

[Ivan Lendl]

im a surreal brewer actually...

come on guys one more post and it will be 50!

i thought the 'dude' was gonna have to knock some heads untill you guys got all nicey nice...

 

[Monk]

Oh no, you said the B-word.
Let's get ready for another 5 pages.

Kai

what's the deal with "bleach"?

 

[Janx]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/search.php?searchid=73017

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

I always abandon the good threads before they get good. sigh

 

[Rhoobarb]

I thought the 'real Brewers' played in Milwaukee beginning in the Spring?

 

[El Pistolero]

We are all real brewers

Actually I'm an imaginary brewer, having been struck on the head with the square root of minus one as a child.

 

[Mr_Turtlehead]

I thought the 'real Brewers' played in Milwaukee beginning in the Spring?

Why is it I stop and ponder all of Rhoobarb's posts?

Damn I love that avatar.

 

[uglygoat]

good thread, discussion, disagreement/misunderstand and then conclusion.

cheers to this board guys/gals, i've learned tons, prolly ten years worth of brewing experience in one plus year here.



and janx, how do you know you are getting any conversion without a hydrometer?

 

[Janx]

and janx, how do you know you are getting any conversion without a hydrometer?

The hangovers...

 

[Brewsmith]

How did I miss this thread all day? Oh wait, I was at work!

 

[Kaiser]

what's the deal with "bleach"?

Some time ago we had a similar discussion, but about using bleach as a sanitizer. It got ugly, I mean really ugly. But unfortunately I missed when it happened and now there is not much left of the offening posts.

One if the things said was "You're not a real brewer if you use bleach", hence the reference.

The use of bleach as a sanitizer seems to be the #1 hot topic.

Kai