PA Kal clone bulid

[cncmoose]

I've sold the 3 keggles that I built for a single tier propane system which will free up some $$ for an all electric Kal Clone (electricbrewery.com) build.

I've ordered all of the switches, pushbuttons, lights, alarm etc. From Auberins.com I've ordered 3 PID's, contactor, RTD's.

I have the kegs and will use them in the inverted position as many others have done. The bottoms have not been cut yet as I've decided to polish them a bit prior to cutting any holes. How much they get polished depends on how tired I get. Started with the Finge gator pad as they were in very good condition.

I'm planning a 50 or 60 amp GFCI for back to back mode with 5500 watt camco elements. Nothing new here. I'll be setting up in the basement within a few feet of the service panel which is very convenient. I’m thinking of setting up a 50A oven receptacle, hardwiring the cable into the control box, then plugging it into the oven recep. to save some $$ on the recep that gets mounted in the CP.

This may not be updated on a frequent basis in the beginning until all the parts are assembled.

I started all grain brewing in 1989. I’ve have yet to brew an extract beer as I jumped in head first right from the get go. After a couple years I spent most of my time traveling for work and basically haven’t brewed since except for wine which I could let sit for months at time without having to babysit.

I would like to thank off the others who have documented their builds on this site. I’ve been reading like a mad man the last few weeks. The amount of knowledge on this site is astounding to say the least!

Cheers

 

[huntb]

Looking forward to seeing your progress! Good luck.

On a side note, I looked at your name and thought I knew who you were until I saw your location. I work with an electrician named Moose who used to work for Fanuc and does a lot of work with our CNC's.

 

[cncmoose]

Looking forward to seeing your progress! Good luck.

On a side note, I looked at your name and thought I knew who you were until I saw your location. I work with an electrician named Moose who used to work for Fanuc and does a lot of work with our CNC's.

Back in the early 80's doing start-up work at a nuclear plant outside of new Orleans, two guys and I drove back from the water intake and at the gate they started some fun harassment of the cute female guard. She checked my ID last and said "you're alright moose". After they heard that, it was my nickname forever! I added CNC as I have 2 DIY cnc mills. The second one is in the conversion process.

 

[cncmoose]

I was thinking last night about using two (2) 30 amp breakers to feed the control panel. With 2 mains it would be possible to power both elements at the same time without exceeding 80% of the breaker capacity based on continuous load. Although, I don’t think a small brewery like this would be considered “continuous load” (ie greater than 3 hours). I used to know the NEC fairly well but it’s been a long time.

Would have to add an additional main contactor in the control panel and change the wiring of course. Plus two (2) 30 amp breakers in the service panel instead of just one, but I have room for four (4) 2 pole breakers so space is not an issue. This would also alleviate the use of the #6 wire so #10 wire can be used which I have enough on hand for the project. So some extra expense up front but I would assume that 30 amp GFCI breakers are not as expensive as 50 or 60 amp GFCI’s. I’ll have to price them.

In all the reading I’ve done here and at Kal’s website, I can’t recall if anyone has done this. So if anyone has configured the power like this, please let me know. Thanks!

 

[jeffmeh]

I was thinking last night about using two (2) 30 amp breakers to feed the control panel. With 2 mains it would be possible to power both elements at the same time without exceeding 80% of the breaker capacity based on continuous load. Although, I don’t think a small brewery like this would be considered “continuous load” (ie greater than 3 hours). I used to know the NEC fairly well but it’s been a long time.

Would have to add an additional main contactor in the control panel and change the wiring of course. Plus two (2) 30 amp breakers in the service panel instead of just one, but I have room for four (4) 2 pole breakers so space is not an issue. This would also alleviate the use of the #6 wire so #10 wire can be used which I have enough on hand for the project. So some extra expense up front but I would assume that 30 amp GFCI breakers are not as expensive as 50 or 60 amp GFCI’s. I’ll have to price them.

In all the reading I’ve done here and at Kal’s website, I can’t recall if anyone has done this. So if anyone has configured the power like this, please let me know. Thanks!

You are correct in that this application does not constitute a continuous load, as you should never be running an element at 100% for three hours.

And as crazy as it sounds, the 50a GFCI spa panel at Home Depot tends to be less expensive than a 30a or 50a GFCI breaker.

 

[cncmoose]

Jeffmeh

Thanks for the link. My local HD has 4 of them.

 

[kal]

You are correct in that this application does not constitute a continuous load, as you should never be running an element at 100% for three hours.

Yup. That's true. The electrical code in the US and many other places states that "the wiring for a continuously loaded appliance without a motor needs to be rated at 125% of the marked rating of that appliance", and that a continuous load is defined as "A load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more".

The place that it gets messy (and is the reason why electrical brewers like to argue over this ) is because the code goes on to further state that "A fixed storage-type water heater that has a capacity of 120 gal or less shall be considered a continuous load".

So the arguments made for and against using more than 80% capacity typically revolves around whether someone thinks that the elements will be fired for more than 3 hours continuously (unlikely) and/or whether or not an electric brewing setup is classified as a "fixed storage-type water heater" (given that we use the electric heating elements found in hot water tanks and the functionality is somewhat similar).

Now that said, I've yet to hear one electrician or inspector actually say that they have to keep the load for an electric brewing setup below 80%. Still always good to ask however to be sure.

Kal

 

[jeffmeh]

Thanks Kal. I had never heard of the "fixed storage-type water heater" clause. So one could definitely make a reasonable argument that not providing 125% of the appliance rating is in violation of that clause. That said, I still do not know of any real reason why doing so in this application would create an unacceptable risk of hazard.

 

[kal]

Yup. I don't really see the issue either, but people like to argue over the semantics sometimes.

Kal

 

[cncmoose]

Kal, thank you for your comments. I vaguely recall the water heater exclusion now that you mention it.

I think the prudent thing to do and not to mention the safest, is to design and build to stay within the 80% capacity because if we don't and something happens, we know who is going to lose on all accounts don't we.