"Oxygen transmissiblity of Plastic"

[clayof2day]

My question: Whats the OTR for glass?

 

[casebrew]

My question: Whats the OTR for glass?

I didn't look for it, but it's probably pretty low.

I did look for OTR of polycarbonate, but couldn't find any info. Except to say that it is used for lots of food stuffs. And to make oxygen permeable contact lenses. So probably OK for food as far as emitting chemicals.

I've looked at a couple more 5g bottles, found some labeled PC, most labeled 'other', none PLA.

 

[casebrew]

I use better bottles, I already have them, sunk cost, so I don't really care either way. However, I would suggest that there are probably 20 other factors in your brewing process that would affect the flavor of a batch moreso than any difference in fermenter makeup (unless we're talking about something highly porous like wood or unglazed ceramic). If buckets are marginally acceptable, I'm sure you'll be fine with your #7 water jug.

I don't think buckets are "marginally acceptable", I think they are the standard of the homebrew industry. The upgrade to glass or Better Bottles is NOT sold for chemical reasons, but for esthetic purposes. PC is better than the buckets, but the myth is that they are the worst thing you can do short of peeing into your beer.

What I'm trying to figure out is what your goal is. Are you looking to convince everyone to stop wasting money on PET bottles?

No. Spend YOUR money however you like. My goal is to demystify homebrewing for the noobies. Making the hobby seem more technical (and more expensive) than it has to be scares folks away. Maybe I'm tilting at windmills. Oh well.

Keep in mind that the responses here are from the Choir member. Many devotees are lurkers, usually about 10 to each choir member. So forum discussions are educating more parishoners than you may realize.

All of these myths seem to make life more difficult for the noobs, and are FALSE:

Aluminum pots are bad. (Totally false)

Sucrose is bad. (partially false. Generally 20% is acceptable, but it's the lack of nitrogen that causes the off taste. Refined extract is as much the culprit as too much sucrose, which is glucose and fructose, without which you wouldn't have beer)

AG costs will send you to the poorhouse (if you believe all these myths)

Lead in brass fittings is bad. (How many cases of lead poisoning are reportedly due to lead in water lines?)

You have to mash in an insulated MLT. With $40 worth of fittings.

$1 worth of chlorine? NOoo, you need $16 worth of _____!

"Food Grade" anydamnthing.

Oxygenate, or else.

Lager is better than Ale.

Ale is bettter than Lager.

Keggers are better than bottlers.

Beer should taste like grapefruit peels. ( I'm a malt head, and just thought I would throw that in)

In the words of one of our heroes: " Just Brew It!" And try to be supportive to those disadvantaged members of the group who have lesser knowledge. Like me?

 

[Brew-boy]

I have been using a water bottle with a #7 in it for a while and it makes good beer. Dont knock it Unless you have tried it.

 

[delboy]

I don't think buckets are "marginally acceptable", I think they are the standard of the homebrew industry. The upgrade to glass or Better Bottles is NOT sold for chemical reasons, but for esthetic purposes. PC is better than the buckets, but the myth is that they are the worst thing you can do short of peeing into your beer.




No. Spend YOUR money however you like. My goal is to demystify homebrewing for the noobies. Making the hobby seem more technical (and more expensive) than it has to be scares folks away. Maybe I'm tilting at windmills. Oh well.

Keep in mind that the responses here are from the Choir member. Many devotees are lurkers, usually about 10 to each choir member. So forum discussions are educating more parishoners than you may realize.

All of these myths seem to make life more difficult for the noobs, and are FALSE:

Aluminum pots are bad. (Totally false)

Sucrose is bad. (partially false. Generally 20% is acceptable, but it's the lack of nitrogen that causes the off taste. Refined extract is as much the culprit as too much sucrose, which is glucose and fructose, without which you wouldn't have beer)

AG costs will send you to the poorhouse (if you believe all these myths)

Lead in brass fittings is bad. (How many cases of lead poisoning are reportedly due to lead in water lines?)

You have to mash in an insulated MLT. With $40 worth of fittings.

$1 worth of chlorine? NOoo, you need $16 worth of _____!

"Food Grade" anydamnthing.

Oxygenate, or else.

Lager is better than Ale.

Ale is bettter than Lager.

Keggers are better than bottlers.

Beer should taste like grapefruit peels. ( I'm a malt head, and just thought I would throw that in)

In the words of one of our heroes: " Just Brew It!" And try to be supportive to those disadvantaged members of the group who have lesser knowledge. Like me?

Great post

 

[Crabmeat]

http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ninjaconedw5.jpg

 

[casebrew]

http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ninjaconedw5.jpg

Now that is cool! Would a more classic shape settle the trub better- drain often, shake a bit form time to time to get the settled gunk off the 'shoulder'?

How is the leakage at the mouth?

It's disposable, when you make the next one you can us the old one to make a stand? Cut it in half, cut a valve access hole in the side, set the new one on, stand by for fermentation!

 

[Crabmeat]

haven't used it yet, I plan to use it for my first all grain. No leak on the inside, peer close and you can see a 7/16 o-ring. As for the trub that will settle below the opening of the pvc on the inside, I plan on using the cap from a juicy juice bottle to block trub from settling below the pvc because it fits perfect in the neck. I just need to drill a hole in the juicy juice and kill a bottle off.

 

[casebrew]

haven't used it yet, I plan to use it for my first all grain. No leak on the inside, peer close and you can see a 7/16 o-ring. As for the trub that will settle below the opening of the pvc on the inside, I plan on using the cap from a juicy juice bottle to block trub from settling below the pvc because it fits perfect in the neck. I just need to drill a hole in the juicy juice and kill a bottle off.

I wouldn't worry about that. The small surface area of the trub in the neck won't hurt. Especially when you will still get a small build up on your juice cap. Perhaps conicals don't even need to be drained of trub? The cone shape reduces the suface area of the trub that is exposed to the beer. But OH, you still need to get the beer out...

Did you make your hole in for the bubbler big enough to take hydrometer samples? And/Or a blow-off tube?

 

[olllllo]

Ideally all of the trub would come out with minimal wort loss.

What can happen with this design is this is that when you try to rack off the trub, the pressure punches a hole in the trub, so alot of it remains in the carboy.

This can happen with SS conicals. I think that people hit the outside of the SS conical with a rubber mallet to ensure the trub gets racked.

Please let us know the outcome.

 

[abracadabra]

*MVTR stands for Moisture Vapor Transmission Rate in g-mil/100in. 2/24hr. MVTR is a measure of the passage of gaseous H2O through a barrier. The lower the rate, the longer the package protects its contents from moisture and ensures the moisture content of the product remains the same.

Isn't H2O in the gaseous state only when it has reached the temp. of boiling ?

Which is 212 degrees F or 100 degrees C at sea level and decreases as the altitude increases.

It seems to me that this would only be an issue if you brewed at something like 20,000 ft above sea level. Or you were to dump wort in at or near the boiling point.

Are the molecules of H2O that constitute relative humidity considered gaseous or still in the liquid form? I thought it was liquid althought they were contained within a gas.

I'm not a chemist but that seems pretty basic.

 

[olllllo]

Humidity (gaseous H2O) is always present.

 

[abracadabra]

Humidity (gaseous H2O) is always present.

It seems you are correct sir H20 in the form of humidity does consitute a gas

 

[casebrew]

The humidity would be higher in the carboy than out, so you will lose moisture. Anybody ever notice and measure the loss? Do you think that is why I never get 54 bottles out of a batch?

 

[Dave R]

I have several #2 Buckets and two #1 Pet 5 Gal water cooler bottles that I use for primaries and all make great beer. Of course, my beer doesn't sit around long enough to get oxygenated. I'm making 5 gal batches every two weeks or so. I haven't spent a penny on primaries yet.

 

[abracadabra]

Here's what you might be getting if you buy a number 7 other

Other plastics, including acrylic, polycarbonate, polylactic acid , nylon and fiberglass.

When they say fiberglass I wonder if they really mean epoxy resins with fiberglass

 

[casebrew]

Here's what you might be getting if you buy a number 7 other

Other plastics, including acrylic, polycarbonate, polylactic acid , nylon and fiberglass.

When they say fiberglass I wonder if they really mean epoxy resins with fiberglass

#7 is for non-recyclables. That is what it means. #7 could be combinations of other, recyclable plastics too. Like bottles with oxygen-proof linings that would be excellent fermenters. Fiberglass is a non-recylable combination, usually poly-ester resin, it is cheaper than epoxy.

And is there any evidence that any of those resins would harm beer? If so, is it used in multi-gallon water bottles?

 

[Jim Karr]

Actually, H2O will still move through a membrane even at freezing temperatures. That's what causes freezerburn, because the moisture in a package will still move through the package. I don't understand how , but it does.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

I know for a fact that blue watter bottles with #7 are polycarbonate.

And keep in mind these are food grade.

 

[user 4295]

And the wheels on the bus go round and......

 

[pa-in-utah]

So what is the concensus???? Can you use a #7 bottle or not? It seems to me that there is alot of "he said--- she said".....

Guess I am just stirring the pot again. Just trying to find out all the details. Who is right and who is wrong, or shoud I say incorrect.

From this link I gather #7 bottles should be ok to use.

http://www.alphap.com/basics/compare.html

Seems they will allow gaseous water to penertae more than O2.

 

[abracadabra]

I know for a fact that blue watter bottles with #7 are polycarbonate.

And keep in mind these are food grade.

You may be correct but not all blue bottles are #7 however.

 

[pa-in-utah]

Is polycarbonate bad? I am no scientist, so I do not understand the different "types or components" in plastic.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

You may be correct but not all blue bottles are #7 however.

Thus why I said Blue bottles WITH #7.

I've used #7's for years. In fact left a beer in one for 16 months once. People use the white platic carboys and they are O2 sieves.

Do you guys realise how long you'd have to leave beer in plastic for it even matter about O2 transfer?? A Long f'ing time.

 

[mad_legend]

Wow, my first post and I'm already whipping a dead horse! Sorry!

I have a lot (5) 5gal Sparkletts jugs that say "7" "Other" but they are made of "Unglass" which turns out to be Dupont Polycarb. I'm gonna skip the "is it ok to use" and go straight to "do they make stoppers etc in this size so I can do a batch (or 5) of Ed's Apelwein" I've never brewed anything other than Mr. Beer and I am currently on page 117 of 400+ pages of the Apelwein thread. (whew, thats a LOT of pages!) Anyhow, great site, glad I found it, keep up all the good work!

 

[Clintron3000]

"do they make stoppers etc in this size so I can do a batch (or 5) of Ed's Apelwein"

Did you ever find a stopper to fit? If so, what size?

This is an old thread, so how did the brew end up working out anyway? Did it taste like onions? or basement mold? or Sasquatch?