Overpitching

[pauswa]

Hello. I plan on making a 2½-gallon all-grain batch of an English mild ale (mashed on my stove with Brew in a Bag method). OG will be around 1.032 to 1.035 or so. I plan to use Safale 04. What would happen if I just sprinkle the yeast directly into the 5-gallon carboy and put the stopper right on (with minimal to almost no aeration)? That's a lot of yeast for that low gravity. Mr. Malty suggests approximately 4 g of dry yeast. But since I wouldn't really aerate, would the extra yeast be a good thing? I plan to ferment in the low 60s (actual wort temperature). So if I use the whole package, I will be pitching more than twice the recommended amount of dry yeast.

The reason I ask is because I like to do 2½-gallon batches in my 5-gallon carboy, and the Safale 04 is sort of expensive. I don't like the idea of only using half the packet and discarding the rest. (Supposedly it doesn't last once it's opened.)

Would I get any weird flavors over-pitching in this manner? Would the extra yeast benefit from getting a headstart since I will do very little aeration?

Thanks for any advice from the advanced homebrewers.

 

[Kaz]

Why wouldn't you aerate it? Even if you double pitch, the yeast will still benefit from having some more O2 in the wort. You could just pitch half the packet, sanitize the packet well before opening, re-hydrate about 5.5g of the 11g packet and seal it up for another batch. I would seal it up good and try to get a small clip on it and toss it back in the fridge, I don't see why it wouldn't last as long as it stays sanitary.

 

[pauswa]

Kaz, thanks for that advice. I was thinking that somehow not aerating it would make the higher pitch rate balance out. I personally would love to save the yeast! Has anyone ever tried that with dry yeast? The packages always say use it within 10 days or something like that, but it would not get used again that soon as I only brew about once a month. I don't need large quantities of beer around our house. Of course, I could just pitch half the package and discard the rest as it would only be a waste of something like $1.75, which won't kill me. But I just hate the idea of waste.

As far as aerating, my method has always been just leaving the stopper off the carboy for several hours until I see yeast activity. Usually that's within 12 hours. The yeast always seems happy and I haven't ever noticed any off flavors with my odd aeration method.

The only packages that already come in 6 or 7 g size are Coopers, Muntons, and Muntons Gold. I like the Coopers, but it may sort of dry out a mild. I read that regular Muntons may leave a higher FG, as the Safale 04 would do, but a lot of people seem to say it tastes weird. I think the Muntons Gold also might dry the beer out a bit. But of course it's fun to experiment, and I wouldn't be wasting any yeast.

 

[Beezy]

I am kinda curious about saving the yeast myself. Thinking about doing some 2.5/3 gallon batches but just not sure what to do with the yeast.

 

[commonsenseman]

I'd aerate well, pitch half the packet (rehydrated), then assuming you followed good sanitation procedures, save the rest for later, carefully sealed up. When you use the second half, rehydrate it & add a small amount of wort to proof it.

Oh & I would suggest always aerating your wort by shaking/stirring it, dunno about leaving the stopper off but it sounds like you're just begging for an infection.

 

[rjwhite41]

I would just do a 5 gallon batch and pitch the whole thing. But you're not me evidently so here's my advice. Only pitch half of it and discard the rest. There is absolutely no reason to risk an infection in a batch of beer over a $2 savings in yeast. As far as your question about overpitching, the real threat is that the beer will ferment too clean and too dry. For a mild to be good you need the esters and you need the body. Don't overpitch and don't worry about saving the yeast but still, if it was me, make a bigger batch. You know you'll drink it.

 

[Beezy]

I am doing 5 gal now and it isnt a problem yet but its mainly me drinking the beer. I am not really an alchy and I like to drink other craft beer too. I just don't want it piling up here and would like to still brew twice a month or so. Maybe just do smaller batches of higher grav brew that way I can still pitch the whole thing.

 

[rjwhite41]

When I do milds and standard bitters I notice that I drink more of them. They are low alcohol session beers so I generally drink them at twice the rate of my other beers. Just my 2 cents.

 

[markg388]

make an extra qt of wort and just make a starter, the yeast will surely keep if you do it that way.

 

[chaydaw]

It's 1.50 worth of yeast! Just throw it out. The time you'd waste trying to save it would outweigh a buck fifty anyway!

 

[Beezy]

If you are assuming it's dry yeast.

 

[rjwhite41]

If you are assuming it's dry yeast.

If you read the thread, it is dry yeast.

 

[Beezy]

If you read the thread, it is dry yeast.

Touché but I was also asking questions and I will not necessarily be using dry yeast however I think my questions were answered well enough.

 

[ArcLight]

it's 1.50 worth of yeast! Just throw it out. The time you'd waste trying to save it would outweigh a buck fifty anyway!

+1

 

[rjwhite41]

Touché but I was also asking questions and I will not necessarily be using dry yeast however I think my questions were answered well enough.

I apologize, I don't generally look at names when I'm answering questions or making snide comments. I now see you were in this thread asking questions earlier. If you don't want to use a whole packet of liquid yeast I would recommend you either get a Wyeast activator pouch or you make a starter and only use a portion of it. You can then wash the rest and save it. I did however recognize your name from the hockey thread and although I said the Pens will be solid next year, the Wings will skate with the Cup.

 

[Beezy]

I apologize, I don't generally look at names when I'm answering questions or making snide comments. I now see you were in this thread asking questions earlier. If you don't want to use a whole packet of liquid yeast I would recommend you either get a Wyeast activator pouch or you make a starter and only use a portion of it. You can then wash the rest and save it. I did however recognize your name from the hockey thread and although I said the Pens will be solid next year, the Wings will skate with the Cup.

Nooooo! I wouldn't be opposed to the match up in the finals though. 2 awesome series even though only one turned out the way I wanted it to.

Anyway thanks for the help.

 

[EternalHoppiness]

As to the question of using half a packet of dry yeast and saving the rest for the next batch. . . while I probably wouldn't do it at this point in my brewing (I'm paranoid about sanitation), my dad has done this for 30 years without major problems. But then he does a lot of things I wouldn't when it comes to brewing, so YMMV.

 

[wildwest450]

Hello. I plan on making a 2½-gallon all-grain batch of an English mild ale (mashed on my stove with Brew in a Bag method). OG will be around 1.032 to 1.035 or so. I plan to use Safale 04. What would happen if I just sprinkle the yeast directly into the 5-gallon carboy and put the stopper right on (with minimal to almost no aeration)?

Sounds fine to me, dry yeast doesn't require aeration, although I would rehydrate. I've used half packets and resealed with a food saver before. If you can seal it properly it will be fine.


_

 

[emjay]

Where the heck did you hear dry yeast doesn't need aeration? Aeration has nothing to do with dry vs liquid.

 

[wildwest450]

Where the heck did you hear dry yeast doesn't need aeration? Aeration has nothing to do with dry vs liquid.

Do your research, it's a fact. It doesn't hurt but isn't necessary. And yes it has everything to do with dry vs. liquid.




I always aerate my wort when using liquid yeast. Do I need to aerate the wort before pitching dry yeast?

No, there is no need to aerate the wort but it does not harm the yeast either. During its aerobic production, dry yeast accumulates sufficient amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols to produce enough biomass in the first stage of fermentation. The only reason to aerate the wort when using wet yeast is to provide the yeast with oxygen so that it can produce sterols and unsaturated fatty acids which are important parts of the cell membrane and therefore essential for biomass production.

_

 

[Beezy]

Actually I was just reading the fermentis site today so I know that is bad advice.

"Pitching instructions: Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry
yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C ± 3C (80F ± 6F). Once the
expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to
30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream
into the fermentation vessel.
Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of
the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the
yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes
and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration."

 

[emjay]

Do your research, it's a fact. It doesn't hurt but isn't necessary. And yes it has everything to do with dry vs. liquid.

I always aerate my wort when using liquid yeast. Do I need to aerate the wort before pitching dry yeast?

No, there is no need to aerate the wort but it does not harm the yeast either. During its aerobic production, dry yeast accumulates sufficient amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols to produce enough biomass in the first stage of fermentation. The only reason to aerate the wort when using wet yeast is to provide the yeast with oxygen so that it can produce sterols and unsaturated fatty acids which are important parts of the cell membrane and therefore essential for biomass production.

_

I'm well aware of oxygen's function, and I've done plenty of research, but I've never read that about dry yeast. In fact, I'm not entirely clear on what you're referring to by aerobic production of the dry yeast - I'm guessing you mean when the company responsible for producing, packaging, and selling the dry yeast produces it? Because the aerobic REproductive phase wouldn't make much sense with how you explained it.

Either way, I'm always willing to do more research, but I'm being honest when I say I've done plenty of research on the topic of yeast, so perhaps you could point me towards a reliable source that says this, because obviously I'm not looking in the right place(s) if you're indeed correct!

And just to take things a bit more off-topic for a sec... if true, it sounds like just another reason for me to prefer liquid yeasts. Despite the constant emphasis on the importance of adequate oxygenation, under-oxygenating is a valid tool for manipulating flavor profiles. IMO it's actually beneficial for a number of specific beers and styles, and so I don't really like the idea of giving up control over that variable.

 

[wildwest450]

Either way, I'm always willing to do more research, but I'm being honest when I say I've done plenty of research on the topic of yeast, so perhaps you could point me towards a reliable source that says this, because obviously I'm not looking in the right place(s) if you're indeed correct!

Um, that bold text was a quote from the faq page of Danstar. I've personally done 30+ dry yeast beers, never once aerated, always get full attenuation and a nice clean near neutral flavor. I insist on a neutral yeast for ipa's and most pales, and i'm not paying $6 for something that 05 or notty (before they jacked up the price) is perfectly capable of.

Don't get me wrong you can shake the carboy/bucket until your arms fall off, it's just not getting you any additional benefit, besides some cardio perhaps.

_