outcome with less tea?

[Kombuchinism]

I'm a new brewer and this is my second time. What happens when you don't add enough black tea to the brew? I accidentally only added a little and realised a day later its light in color. Its day 3 and I'm seeing a flimsy scoby. Would it have enough nutrients for a healthy scoby to grow?
How does less or more amount of tea change the final result?

 

[ScobeyDoo]

Making Kombucha is a fine balancing act between doing things that are good for the yeast and doing things that are good for the Aceterbacters (the ones that build the Scoby).
Yeast likes, Sugars, Tea, and warmth while the bacteria like Glucose, Alcohol and Cooler temps.

So if the Tea is a bit weak it will favor the Bacteria slightly more which just means it will take longer for the yeast to do it's job. If your Kombuchas become too yeasty, reducing tea strength is actually one of the remedies to get the mix back into balance.

ScobyDoo

 

[Kombuchinism]

Thanks for being so clear its very helpful. I'm going to add more tea to second fermentation to make it taste better. There's a little yeast in kombucha and its not absolutely clear. I don't know whats the normal amount of yeast there should be but I see a lot of floaters and perhaps less tea in this one would support that.
Its day 4 and scoby doesn't look as good as it looked the last time on day 4. I wanted this to be a short 7 day fermentation but I would leave it for another week before starting a new batch.

 

[Owly055]

My experience with kombucha is that you can brew with almost no tea with little effect except less tea flavor. I consider the notion that black tea is required, or that tea is an "essential nutrient" has been shown to be nonsense in real practice. I've brewed with straight Rooibos and with raspberry leaves and nothing else, and found no discernible difference except the flavor the tea itself adds to the brew.

Your scoby will thicken over time. It is an indicator of the activity level of the acetobacter which is what sours the kombucha. It is not a living organism, and it does NOT make kombucha. It's a byproduct called a pellicle produced by that family of bacteria, and merely consists of microcellulose. It will be tissue thin at first. It unfortunately is falsely attributed with many properties and functions that are simply not true. The acronym "scoby" is itself extremely misleading.

I've been making kombucha for years, and at one time was making it in 5 gallon batches for a local microbrewer who used it in house for personal and employee consumption to avoid consuming beer all day long. My background (college) is in biology, microbiology having been one of my passions for most of my life. Mis and false information annoy me, and the kombucha world is full of it!!


H.W.

 

[Zuljin]

Black tea is not an absolute requirement. Flavored teas do work. While a scoby is not a unique organism on its own, it is a collection of organisms.

 

[Owly055]

Black tea is not an absolute requirement. Flavored teas do work. While a scoby is not a unique organism on its own, it is a collection of organisms.

I suggest that you look up and read about pellicles. Basic microbiology, instead of repeating erroneous folk wisdom............

H.W.

 

[Auger]

Your scoby will thicken over time. It is an indicator of the activity level of the acetobacter which is what sours the kombucha. It is not a living organism, and it does NOT make kombucha. It's a byproduct called a pellicle produced by that family of bacteria, and merely consists of microcellulose. It will be tissue thin at first. It unfortunately is falsely attributed with many properties and functions that are simply not true. The acronym "scoby" is itself extremely misleading.

While a scoby is not a unique organism on its own, it is a collection of organisms.

I suggest that you look up and read about pellicles. Basic microbiology, instead of repeating erroneous folk wisdom............

H.W.

While I'll give you that a SCOBY is effectively a pellicle, to say it is merely microcellulose and is "falsely attributed" with certain properties is not accurate. The parts of the SCOBY that you see are, yes, a cellulose-based fibrous structure, that holds the bacteria and yeast responsible for making kombucha what it is. It's simply a substrate for the biofilm. If, as you say, these properties it is attributed to, do not exist, how does one take a SCOBY piece from one culture of kombucha and use it to create a new one? The fact that the cellulose structure carries the required organisms from one vessel to another illustrate the fact that it acts as a vehicle for a number of microorganisms beyond what you see with your eye. The term SCOBY refers to both this cellulose-based structure as well as the biofilm contained within it.

 

[Zuljin]

While I'll give you that a SCOBY is effectively a pellicle, to say it is merely microcellulose and is "falsely attributed" with certain properties is not accurate. The parts of the SCOBY that you see are, yes, a cellulose-based fibrous structure, that holds the bacteria and yeast responsible for making kombucha what it is. It's simply a substrate for the biofilm. If, as you say, these properties it is attributed to, do not exist, how does one take a SCOBY piece from one culture of kombucha and use it to create a new one? The fact that the cellulose structure carries the required organisms from one vessel to another illustrate the fact that it acts as a vehicle for a number of microorganisms beyond what you see with your eye. The term SCOBY refers to both this cellulose-based structure as well as the biofilm contained within it.

All of this.

The scoby is a bug house.

 

[Owly055]

All of this.

The scoby is a bug house.

I don't agree at all............... Yeasts and acetobacter are in the liquid consuming nutrients and sugars, not "hanging out" in the scoby. There really is nothing to support that view. It's rather anthropomorphic, and completely unrealistic. These microbes don't get up in the morning as you and I do, and go out to "work", then come home to the scoby to watch TV and get laid. They are out there consuming nutrients, reproducing, and dying. Microbiologists have never been able to pin down the exact function of a pellicle, but it definitely is NOT a "home". It may be a barrier keeping undesirable elements out, but it's clearly NOT a house or den, or nest, or.........

H.W.

 

[Auger]

I don't agree at all............... Yeasts and acetobacter are in the liquid consuming nutrients and sugars, not "hanging out" in the scoby. There really is nothing to support that view. It's rather anthropomorphic, and completely unrealistic. These microbes don't get up in the morning as you and I do, and go out to "work", then come home to the scoby to watch TV and get laid. They are out there consuming nutrients, reproducing, and dying. Microbiologists have never been able to pin down the exact function of a pellicle, but it definitely is NOT a "home". It may be a barrier keeping undesirable elements out, but it's clearly NOT a house or den, or nest, or.........

H.W.

Acetobacter work aerobically, which is why they form a biofilm at the air-liquid interface.

As far as the bolded section....that is absolutely incorrect. Biofilms are broadly studied and well documented for various purposes, particularly at the air-liquid interface (a pellicle). Just from a quick google search:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14507360

http://aem.asm.org/content/73/5/1481.full

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0111660

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/la304710k

 

[Zuljin]

A pellicle may be used by a microorganism to provide protection, structure, facilitate movement, and allow transfer of nutrients and waste.

 

[Morden2004]

Acetobacter work aerobically, which is why they form a biofilm at the air-liquid interface.

As far as the bolded section....that is absolutely incorrect. Biofilms are broadly studied and well documented for various purposes, particularly at the air-liquid interface (a pellicle). Just from a quick google search:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14507360

http://aem.asm.org/content/73/5/1481.full

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0111660

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/la304710k

So Matt, I have a question that you might be able to answer for me.

I ferment my Kombucha in a 8 US gallon (approx. 30 litres) wine fermenter and I usually brew 25 litres of tea. Since the fermenter is 24+ inches in diameter my (current) crop of 5 Scobys do not manage to create a complete film cover over the tea in the 6 or 7 days of the fermentation cycle. How does this impact the function?

My Kombucha seems to be no different than when I was brewing in a 1 gallon glass jar. Do I need more Scobys for my 6 gallon container?

Paul

 

[Owly055]

Paul:
I can answer that question from lots of experience. I often have split jars of kombucha.......... 50% in one and 50% in the other, and filled the remainder with sweet tea. One retains the pellicle, and I simply pour the sweet tea over it, as I always do with continuous brew....... I don't believe in messing with it, and the rinse, I believe helps prevent mold, etc. The ONLY difference I've seen is a slightly longer time to brew. The one with the pellicle / scoby will sour to finished stage in about 7 days. The one without takes about half a day longer....... The product is indistinguishable.
As I don't mess with the pellicle / scoby normally, it gets quite thick over time, and I periodically simply lift it off and pitch it into the compost.




H.W.

So Matt, I have a question that you might be able to answer for me.

I ferment my Kombucha in a 8 US gallon (approx. 30 litres) wine fermenter and I usually brew 25 litres of tea. Since the fermenter is 24+ inches in diameter my (current) crop of 5 Scobys do not manage to create a complete film cover over the tea in the 6 or 7 days of the fermentation cycle. How does this impact the function?

My Kombucha seems to be no different than when I was brewing in a 1 gallon glass jar. Do I need more Scobys for my 6 gallon container?

Paul

 

[Auger]

So Matt, I have a question that you might be able to answer for me.

I ferment my Kombucha in a 8 US gallon (approx. 30 litres) wine fermenter and I usually brew 25 litres of tea. Since the fermenter is 24+ inches in diameter my (current) crop of 5 Scobys do not manage to create a complete film cover over the tea in the 6 or 7 days of the fermentation cycle. How does this impact the function?

My Kombucha seems to be no different than when I was brewing in a 1 gallon glass jar. Do I need more Scobys for my 6 gallon container?

Paul

Owly's correct - the fact that the SCOBY biofilm material doesn't perfectly cover the surface of your fermenter shouldn't impact much. It may take a little longer for the fermentation to finish, and over time I'd expect the SCOBYs to grow, but it should still work fine.

 

[Morden2004]

Thanks to both of you for the quick reply.

It seems that I don't have an issue with the method so I'll keep truckin' the way I am and producing that wonderful beverage.

Cheers!

Paul