Other states saturated with low quality micros?

[Mojzis]

I think about this just about every time a new brewery pops up on the map here in NY. We try to visit all of the locals and buy some beer and give support and rate which company is making good beer.

That said, we have been to a lot of small breweries that have opened up in the past few years that I feel won't be open for long. Many of the beers being sold are sub par and many in my opinion, should not be sold. When I spend a few dollars on a beer I (maybe foolishly) expect it to be good. I can get a bottle of Sams or Saranac and be happy with it (for what they are) for less than 2$ a bottle. But most of the time I visit a small brewery its like paying for full priced sub-par home brew. On top of it I like to ask questions and when a brewer has misinformation or knows relatively little about the brewing process it is more than a little disappointing. Not that I am a know it all or I make amazing beer (I don't) but that I would love to see people with skill and expertise make my local beer and most of the time its not happening.

So is this from difficulty of scaling up to a few barrel system and trial ad error? Or is it from difficulty of obtaining quality ingredients? Or are these home brewers jumping into the business head first without experience, qualified brew masters, good recipes, etc?

I tend to get into this rant when someone tries my beer and the inevitable question is asked: "do you plan to open up your own brewery?" so I have to say no, I don't make beer good enough to be sold commercially yet and besides, the market is saturated with small breweries not making good beer. Why add it to it?


Anyway I just wanted to share a discussion with everyone and see what they think and see what its like in other states/areas.

 

[Upthewazzu]

There was a "brewery" in my town that simply bought wort from another brewery up in Spokane (No-Li) and fermented it and then served it. They didn't last long.

Microbreweries are a bit fad-ish right now. That's not necessarily a bad problem to have, but we're just about at the saturation point.

 

[krackin]

There is a big difference between 'wanting' to be good at what you do, and being good at what you do. The best at any given business are those with a talent and desire, not just a 'want' and financial backing.

 

[Mojzis]

Which is the problem here in NY. They might have the want and the financial ability but the actual ability seems not to be there.

I would agree that a lot of micros are not a bad thing to have, but when most of these micros don't produce drinkable beer, it's disappointing when you want to buy a local beer but it's just not good.

For example I had some local beer a while ago and the oatmeal stout was good. They had two other beers which had an aroma similar to something rotten and cat pee. Kid you not. I couldn't finish it and couldn't bring myself to tell the guys who brewed it.

 

[+HopSpunge+]

What part of NY do you guys live in? I am from the buffalo area, and thier is only 1 microbrewery here.

 

[krackin]

There was a time not too long ago when the same bunch of cracks, yips, hips, nigs, nags, necks, squids, squash, rollers, etc. wanted to be bikers. They all wanted Harleys and the motor company complied and saturated the market with what once were highly valued motorcycles. Naturally they never supplied the long desired water cooled heavy cruiser (V-Rod ain't it). The fad crashed and so nearly did the motor company, again after again. Now there are so many low mile rides available they have to rely o Chinese made clothing.

This leaves second had sales with great inventory which is what will happen when these micros ad macros fail which most will. Look for deals and have solid experience to go with the deals.

 

[Mojzis]

What part of NY do you guys live in? I am from the buffalo area, and thier is only 1 microbrewery here.

Rochester area but I also go down towards NYC a lot for family. Most of them are listed in the finger lakes beer trail.

This leaves second had sales with great inventory which is what will happen when these micros ad macros fail which most will. Look for deals and have solid experience to go with the deals.

These second hand sales might help out someone with the experience and talent in the future. Good insight.

 

[ny101]

There are plenty of good breweries in NY. Ithaca is pumping out some decent beers, Brooklyn Brewery certainly beats Sam any day of the week. Rochester has Naked Dove brewery which is O.K.

It is hard in NY as we are such a diverse state. You have the rednecks/canadians up north, a-holes and hipsters down south, and a narrow-belt of ex-pat Floridians in the middle. Very hard to pull together a cross sectional market across that type of diversity.

I think you might need to think about what you want. If you want 2 dollar beer, then go to the nearest 7-11 and pick up Saranac or Sierra Nevada. Now if you have a bit of disposable income, and price isn't a huge deal, then you get a ton of decent options in NY. I personally hate drinking the same beer more then once a month. In my case I'm willing to venture out and try some brew, be it good, decent, or bad. This of course means I am willing to spend money, and not begrudge the brewers for trying to make a living.

 

[Hammy71]

Yes, there are a lot of brewpubs/micro breweries that are disappointing. Two years ago me and the family traveled between Colorado and Montana on vacation. Had a wonderful time and some awesome brews. Last year, we did California to Washington. Have to say I was really disappointed. We ate/drank at many brew pubs and breweries. I was really, really disappointed. I came home and started a thread about how much I hate English IPAs. It got to the point where I could tell if I would like their beers by what kind of IPA they had at the bar. If it was an American IPA, then most of the their other brews would be at least drinkable. If they had an English IPA on tap....then the beers were usually sub par. I deduced that the brewpubs with American IPAs actually gave a crap about the beer and were into making a good product not necessarily making a fortune. But the ones making English IPAs only seemed to do so to cut costs. Less hops and malt. This became and alarming, predictable occurrence as we traveled town to town. I don't know....it just seems a lot of places were there to take advantage of the "fad". Not to make good beer.

 

[brick]

Once or twice a month I go to the local bottle shop and spend a few bucks on something I have never had before. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. Call it research. I have to say, though, that I have only lost big once so far (Three Heads Brewing Rochestafarian...never again!) and we do have a fair number of great micros. Schmaltz opened a brewery a few miles from my house this year and their stuff is mind-bogglingly good.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

ive been blessed to have all really good nanos and brewpubs by my location.
Some have been less than stellar but it doesnt mean they suck. Certainly none do I wish were out of business.

 

[Mojzis]

Oh well. Maybe these small breweries will get better as time goes on.

 

[Rhumbline]

...and a narrow-belt of ex-pat Floridians in the middle.

Wait a minute...there are people who move from Florida to NY?

...oh yeah, there are some we send up there to b@itch about the weather, drive like imbeciles, and whine about how you can't get a decent Key Lime Pie.

 

[whitehause]

We have the same problem in PA. There are a few good ones (Troegs and Weyerbacher come to mind) but there are a ton of bad or very so-so one's. The couple I know of personally were people with a bunch of money but no real skill. Where they fail is not hiring people with knowledge, and if they do, they don't take advice because they put up the money and you'll do it their way or the highway.

 

[runkelia]

What part of NY do you guys live in? I am from the buffalo area, and thier is only 1 microbrewery here.

Burp. 1 you say? Maybe I don't know the definition of a microbrewery is, but Buffalo is doing good I think.

Flying Bison
Community Beer Works
Hamburg

Then there's EBC (Elicotville, Fredonia) although I'm not a big fan

I read in the news recently 3 new breweries of some magnitude were granted some kind of licensing.

 

[deadfall]

I'd agree with the OP. There are a lot of sub par brewery popping up. Some have been around for a while and still suck. I did here that a lot of the breweries are actually buying there beer from a place call custom brew crafters. Most brewing on a 3-5 barrel system can't keep up in the busy season. On a better note, I did finally have a decent beer at the Abandoned brewery in Penn yan. They are even going to make a few sours. The weak will be weeded out in the end. If not everyone will own one.

 

[Mojzis]

I'd agree with the OP. There are a lot of sub par brewery popping up. Some have been around for a while and still suck. I did here that a lot of the breweries are actually buying there beer from a place call custom brew crafters. Most brewing on a 3-5 barrel system can't keep up in the busy season. On a better note, I did finally have a decent beer at the Abandoned brewery in Penn yan. They are even going to make a few sours. The weak will be weeded out in the end. If not everyone will own one.

Yeah a lot are buying beer from CB's and calling themselves breweries. Odd. I did hear Abandoned opened up and will likely head there next. I have also heard that climbing bines (?) has opened up and are making good beer.

 

[+HopSpunge+]

Burp. I forgot about flying bison. FB is better now but boy did it suck when it first came out. And the Hamburg one makes good beer but I am boycotting his stuff because he cheated and just bought the abita brewmaster to make all his beer with his dads millions. Community beer works makes really good beer but needs to mix it up a bit and make some different stuff plus they are only open a couple days a week and the dont have thier pourers liscence or whatever its called. So you can only get a growler filled between 4:51 and 4:57a.m. On thursdays jk

 

[deadfall]

Yeah a lot are buying beer from CB's and calling themselves breweries. Odd. I did hear Abandoned opened up and will likely head there next. I have also heard that climbing bines (?) has opened up and are making good beer.

If you go to Abandon brewing company you should dress well. When I was there you could still see though the walls. Me and a friend were just talking about climbing bines. I'll probably end up over there soon.

I know the feeling of trying out a new brewery and the hype has you hoping for decent beer. When you finally get there and it has lots of off flavors or doesn't even taste better then my worst home brews. I also feel like they are catering to the bud drinkers. I'd like to see a stout or a porter on the tap list occasionally. Seems like I'm always too late or too soon.

 

[elkshadow]

I'll preface by saying I drink high alcohol beers almost exclusively. Anything less than 9% has to be special. I'm a snob that way.

I feel this way at the package store more than I do going out to a brewpub. The Denver area is pretty good with breweries.

I rarely stray from my favorites at the store. I'll give any tap room a chance because you can have testers or a pint and leave if it's bad. But gambling ten bucks on some generic looking Amber or Pale Ale and getting stuck with 5 beers that you want to pour out or give away? no thanks.

 

[MikePiotti]

Abandon Brewing has some great beers. I was there a week after the grand opening and sampled all but 2 beers. Great flavor and goo quality beer. I got to talk to the owners and brew master. Like deadfall said, dress warm! But i think it adds to the overall feel of the place.

Climbing bines has good beer as well. I had one or two i wouldn't suggest, but when I was there (mid November) they had a great apple-pie pale ale that I wish i had bought a growler fill of.

Another few I visited in NY that I think were visiting was,

Two Goats - great atmosphere if that counts for anything
Finger Lakes Brewing Co.
Rooster Fish Brewing.

 

[bovineblitz]

There's a LOT of crappy little breweries around now. Like always, quality is the only thing that will keep them going long term.

Then again, Shipyard is still doing very well, so maybe that's not true.

 

[MikePiotti]

Be lucky you have micro breweries. Here in Jersey they make it nearly impossible to have a brewery. Chris Christy must be a wine-o

 

[Mojzis]

.
Another few I visited in NY that I think were visiting was,

Two Goats - great atmosphere if that counts for anything
Finger Lakes Brewing Co.
Rooster Fish Brewing.

Haven't made it to Two Goats yet. Finger Lakes made a very good watermelon wheat that I would have bought again. The rest was okay. Rooster Fish was decent, but had a lot of issues in their beer also. Or maybe its just me

Then again, Shipyard is still doing very well, so maybe that's not true.

lol

 

[deadfall]

Haven't made it to Two Goats yet. Finger Lakes made a very good watermelon wheat that I would have bought again. The rest was okay. Rooster Fish was decent, but had a lot of issues in their beer also. Or maybe its just me




lol

I thought roosterfish's beer was green or something. Same off taste I get in mine occasionally. I've been there 4 times and the taste is always there. Don't get me wrong. Decent food and far better then others.

Fingerlakes lost me with the Smoked Scotch Ale. I still have nightmares of that one.

 

[mytommygundont]

I feel like Colorado has mostly high quality breweries. There are only two that I can think of that I don't think should be in business. Competition breeds quality.

As far as saturation goes: I don't think we are anywhere near over saturation here. In terms of normal retail business sense, we could assume that because we have so many breweries, that there is no more room. However, breweries are becoming local bars. People are always looking for a place to grab a couople of beers. If the brewery provides good atmosphere and food/take out menus, that gives them an advantage over a bar down the street selling someone elses beer. In most instances, opening a brewery close to another brewery is ideal, as it creates a brewery destination (more breweries to visit at one time).

 

[tsl346]

I can weigh in for Missouri. I know its not CO as far as a craft beer state but its an interesting beer state since we have AB and the style of beer they put out compared to the beer Missouri in general has been putting out. Schlafly has been putting out great beers with only a few exceptions. There are several other microbreweries that have popped up in the STL area that have been very good. 6-row brewery in STL has made several great beers that I love to drink. There are a couple in Springfield, MO that are good. I have seen a few in Kansas City that are good, although Boulevard (although not sure if it's still considered a Micro or not) definitely has the upper hand there. I'm in Southeast MO and there are several in the general area that are great for what they are.

Now, not being in a large metropolitan area I'm sure makes a difference on the number of people trying to start up Microbreweries but Missouri has been good to me so far with providing great beers.

 

[jrgtr42]

Can't talk about other places too much, but here in Massachusetts, we have new breweries being announced all the time. While there are some that have started up in the past few years, and will be opening soon, that will stick around (Jack's Abby, Tree House, Mystic, Idle Hands, and so forth,) I'm sure that there are several more that won't make it, either because the beer is sub-par or bad business practices.

 

[mattd2]

...I would agree that a lot of micros are not a bad thing to have, but when most of these micros don't produce drinkable beer, it's disappointing when you want to buy a local beer but it's just not good...

I would say in that case having a lot of local micros is a bad thing to have. Imagine all the extra revenue that the good ones would have if they somehow could control the quality of a microbrewery before they opened! And no people trying "this new craft beer thing" getting a sub0par example and bradising the entire industry as tasting like crap.

But if you taste soemthing you don't like you should tell the brewery - they can either get butthurt over it and ignore your feedback and never get better = fail. Or they can take you advice onboard and check to see if they have an issue or just a bad recipe.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Ya know whats going to be even more important than good beer. Good business model and business plan.
If these upstarts dont have a marketing genius at the helm along with a talented brewmaster then they are doomed.
And it will only get harder.