Organic HOPS in Michigan coming soon
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Yeah...at the very least, I would include some sort of harness with a tie off in case you slip. I know a grower with a similar set up. Luckily he was only a few feet off the ground, so he only broke his leg, in three places, and lived to tell about it.
I have a safety harness all ready to go. I've been working as a millwright/fabricator and have all the safety equipment for this. I know the concerns and we have all been in the trades growing up.
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Interesting thread. I wish you luck. Be careful, it takes a lot of hops to equal one man's life.
Interesting project. I'd love to be there and help, even if it's just to ride up on the platform and top a few trees.
How are you planning on attaching the cross pieces to the tops of the trees?
How are you planning on attaching the cross pieces to the tops of the trees?
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I'm wondering if you have any sections that would be harvest-able now, or in a few years as utility poles. The density of the planting is yielding nice tall straight growth in places by the looks. You would probably need to 12 to 14 inches across the butt. If you are going to be farmin' you have to use everything you have to make it roll.
That is very good. You really need to know at least the basics in all the trades to be in agriculture, most folks have no idea of that aspect. Us dumb farmers and all. When specialty equipment needs fabrication or repairs have to be made you have to be able to do it yourself or at least show how it needs to be done.
I'm hoping that this works out for you. I love to see farms work.
We have been using the trees for utility poles as well as pulp wood. My mother would really like me to build her a new cabin with some of the lumber. I'll be working on this project for a few years before it will even become close to being done. I really wanted to start taking with growers.
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How's your soil there? I know red pine likes a sandy soil, and it's probably very acidic soil as well. I'd check that, before topping/cutting any trees to grow hops.
If anything those trees have given the area some fairly good compost. I believe it will be a little acidic as well. I'm just doing a test run on these 5 acres. First year as I stated. I will be having soil samples as soon as the ground thaws.
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I started going to commercial farming by clearing my fields in 1997. This was mostly pine barren with a pH of 4.5 to 5. I raise mostly sweet corn so that will go to show you that raising pH in sandy soils isn't difficult. In fact you need to be more careful in sandy soils because you can go overboard easily. You can adjust this with organic matter even though you will still be high it acts as a buffer. I used commercial wood ash and got 8.3 pH in places and those areas are still 7 pH after all these years. I incorporate all the organic matter I can. This will be my 17th year open for business and I'm not done building. Take your time, it is a lifetime project if you want to live the life.
I'll bet a beer that these soils are 5.2 pH. You will need N and K for sure. I have no idea how the P in naturally in MI but most likely you will need a little. That won't move much in your soil though.
I'll bet a beer that these soils are 5.2 pH. You will need N and K for sure. I have no idea how the P in naturally in MI but most likely you will need a little. That won't move much in your soil though.
Forgot to mention that adjusting the pH takes time which affects nutrient uptake. What you can do is follow all the recommendations then also foliar feed while waiting for the soils to adjust. I am not a hop grower so I don't know what the nutrient demands are but I would guess that the first year or two supplying a luxury amount of nutrient within reason wouldn't hurt. Come flowering time it maybe different.
cool project! Its good to know someone is taking advantage of the legislation that was passed to support growing the hop industry here in Michigan. I have sandy soin in the Kalamazoo area as well and grow hops in it relatively successfully for my own needs.
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Yes I have a horse boarding business that has about 30 years of composted manure on about 1 1/2 acres. Waiting do have the soils tested but going to this week or next. Thank you for sharing your experience
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Cool on the compost. That will run a 6 to 6.5 pH in my experience. I have a horse farm nearby that had thousands and thousands of yards that needed to be hauled off. I had the place and they had the wheelers and trailer dumps. I probably took 10 thousand yards in the first few years. I also used wood ash from a local biomass plant which needed to get rid of the ash. Both of these just cost me what it took to spread the materials.
If you can get wood ash it is a good product but not real easy to handle. In bulk stockpile it is considered potentially hazardous and has runoff regulations. No big deal. As a liming agent it is applied at twice the rate of ag lime. You get the added benefit of micro nutrients and K, maybe as much as 12 to 14%. It is worth it for free but to me it isn't worth paying for and it isn't free anymore. I was a trial farm using it at the time. You can spread it with a manure spreader by taking some of your horse compost and putting that on the spreader chain first then put the load of ash on that which will help get the chain moving without binding. Keep going until the load is done. I think some commercial spreaders use modified sanders now.
If you can get wood ash it is a good product but not real easy to handle. In bulk stockpile it is considered potentially hazardous and has runoff regulations. No big deal. As a liming agent it is applied at twice the rate of ag lime. You get the added benefit of micro nutrients and K, maybe as much as 12 to 14%. It is worth it for free but to me it isn't worth paying for and it isn't free anymore. I was a trial farm using it at the time. You can spread it with a manure spreader by taking some of your horse compost and putting that on the spreader chain first then put the load of ash on that which will help get the chain moving without binding. Keep going until the load is done. I think some commercial spreaders use modified sanders now.
There are a couple of things that I think aren't being considered (still).
I don't know how much of an expert you are in trees and forestry and things, but one of the things I know is that dead red pine trees/pole will attract wildlife. One thing that will come this year is a bunch of pine sawyers.
I had a friend (not from the midwest) who bought a place in Wisconsin and decided last spring to plant a garden. Of course, it must be fenced due to deer. He thought everyone was crazy around him, buying treated lumber for fence posts and decided to just cut some pine on his 40 to use as poles. It took about 2 months for the pine sawyers to really set in, and his poles will be gone in about 2-3 years.
When you have standing dead/dying pine, it's a magnet for pine sawyers, and the poles will be gone by the time you get a reasonable harvest. Secondly, woodpeckers will come in like you've set a lunch buffet and that will riddle the poles full of holes.
Bark beetles will be a huge issue as well.
If you're set on this course, I'd definitely talk to your county extension agent to find a way to protect your poles. If you're going to use them for the hops, you'll end up losing both the poles as a crop, and the hops (as you'll still need a way for them to grow upwards).
I hate being negative, but I have lots of experience with the Northwoods, and I'm married to a forester who later became a wildlife biologist.
While the idea is great, and the process does have merit, I'd really consider talking with someone familiar with the forestry of your area. A nice red pine tree farm will be worth money as they are thinned, and later harvested- but a stand of dead trees with infect infestation is going to be an issue.
I don't know how much of an expert you are in trees and forestry and things, but one of the things I know is that dead red pine trees/pole will attract wildlife. One thing that will come this year is a bunch of pine sawyers.
I had a friend (not from the midwest) who bought a place in Wisconsin and decided last spring to plant a garden. Of course, it must be fenced due to deer. He thought everyone was crazy around him, buying treated lumber for fence posts and decided to just cut some pine on his 40 to use as poles. It took about 2 months for the pine sawyers to really set in, and his poles will be gone in about 2-3 years.
When you have standing dead/dying pine, it's a magnet for pine sawyers, and the poles will be gone by the time you get a reasonable harvest. Secondly, woodpeckers will come in like you've set a lunch buffet and that will riddle the poles full of holes.
Bark beetles will be a huge issue as well.
If you're set on this course, I'd definitely talk to your county extension agent to find a way to protect your poles. If you're going to use them for the hops, you'll end up losing both the poles as a crop, and the hops (as you'll still need a way for them to grow upwards).
I hate being negative, but I have lots of experience with the Northwoods, and I'm married to a forester who later became a wildlife biologist.
While the idea is great, and the process does have merit, I'd really consider talking with someone familiar with the forestry of your area. A nice red pine tree farm will be worth money as they are thinned, and later harvested- but a stand of dead trees with infect infestation is going to be an issue.
I was going to ask about Yooper's points and forgot yesterday. Now, if you have any, or can trade off for black locust you can use that. That will be good for 75 to 80 years, maybe more. Cedar will work but it ain't black locust. Black locust is also tough as hell forged nails. It was propagated across the country as special purpose use in mine timbers. It also is great firewood and burns almost like coal.
Here we have carpenter ants and pine borers which do a number. In my experience, untreated pines have about a 10 year life span where they are not in ground contact and can air dry reasonably well. A lot of that time is cold storage, aka winter, of course but that would apply to your area as well. An untreated 6"x6" will last about 5 years until it has rotted off in the 4" to 8" depth in soil. Much below that won't rot much but that doesn't matter. Carpenter ants love that moist wet wood as it is easy to gnaw through. You don't want to use any boron products to address this, it will wipe out pollinators and can be plant toxic.
Here we have carpenter ants and pine borers which do a number. In my experience, untreated pines have about a 10 year life span where they are not in ground contact and can air dry reasonably well. A lot of that time is cold storage, aka winter, of course but that would apply to your area as well. An untreated 6"x6" will last about 5 years until it has rotted off in the 4" to 8" depth in soil. Much below that won't rot much but that doesn't matter. Carpenter ants love that moist wet wood as it is easy to gnaw through. You don't want to use any boron products to address this, it will wipe out pollinators and can be plant toxic.
I am trying this as a test run. As we are cutting those wood lots. We are leaving a reasonable amount topped at 25 feet to run our trellis leaving them rooted and stripping the bark. Gonna see how long they stay. I am working with 400 acres of wooded planted and natural forests. I have seen that animals can be used to thin the lower growth while the bines climb.
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I have a feeling that I will run into animal issues. I have had that manure tested. It was slightly acidic, done by Michigan State. I really am trying to make this as cheap as possibly by using my own lumber as materials. Due to the size of my project those cost are crushing. There's no way I could get nearly as much done in my first year or two and have any returns. That is why I'm doing it with pine that I own already. I also don't have a problem redoing my trellis because between oct-march I can rebuild if poles are broke or rotted because these plants stay underground or just above.
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I've also already designed but need to fabricate a roofing structure to stop water from rotting my beam joints. Planning on possibly building bat houses and getting in business with the neighbor who's a new keeper. I also have a badass M4 and 308 for any animals I feel should back off my hops
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I use a Springfield M1A which is .308 or Ruger Ranch in 6.8 SPC for farm rifles mostly. I found the 6.8 Rem SPC to be quite impressive and extremely handy in that carbine. Deer are my first problem then everything eats corn. Bear can be extremely damaging. One year we took out 16 in the immediate area. I use predamage permits for deer for other hunters, I don't need any permits to harvest them.
Deer seem to eat anything when they are starving in spring. I have found that chicken manure tea and fish emulsion fertilizer work about the best of anything out there for organic use. Giving them an alternative feed area helps to a degree but they are browsers and like sampling here and there. Winter Rye works well. I use it for winter cover and they are always into it at ice out.
Yes, costs are very real and very high building a farm. It is often cheaper to go temporary to see what is viable and what is not. I think that we all do that. I don't know any farmer or even small business owner that counts their time as a cost. Hired help is of course which is why I have done without much help. Besides, if you don't build it yourself it isn't yours.
I'm hoping that I can get started here in a couple more weeks. I still have a little more snow than you do by the pics. Not real bad though.
Deer seem to eat anything when they are starving in spring. I have found that chicken manure tea and fish emulsion fertilizer work about the best of anything out there for organic use. Giving them an alternative feed area helps to a degree but they are browsers and like sampling here and there. Winter Rye works well. I use it for winter cover and they are always into it at ice out.
Yes, costs are very real and very high building a farm. It is often cheaper to go temporary to see what is viable and what is not. I think that we all do that. I don't know any farmer or even small business owner that counts their time as a cost. Hired help is of course which is why I have done without much help. Besides, if you don't build it yourself it isn't yours.
I'm hoping that I can get started here in a couple more weeks. I still have a little more snow than you do by the pics. Not real bad though.
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