options for a sour mash

[hopbrad]

I am looking for a controlled sour mash method. I am in the US at the moment and want to take down some bacterias to start making some kettle soured beers. Other than the live cultures, are there any other easy options for this? Dry preferably, like Probiotic pills, or are there any dry yogurt cultures that may work that would be light and easy to pack in a suitcase?
I've also read people throwing in greek yogurt? which I can get down there

 

[cactusgarrett]

Many use this. I've only done liquid lab cultures, but will give this a shot soon.

 

[IslandLizard]

Not sure if it is true, but a brewer friend mentioned that those Swanson (probiotic) L-Plantarum pills need to kept chilled or the bacteria degrade and lose their potency over time. According to this publication freeze dried probiotics (like those Swanson pills) can survive room temperatures well as long as the humidity is kept at bay. Moisture is a determining factor, so (expensive) blister packs are preferred. If someone can verify this, it would be great to know.

Not all Greek yogurts contain the specific Lacto bacteria everyone seems to want apparently.
According to the packaging, Chobani contains: S. Thermophilus, L. Bulgaricus, L. Acidophilus, Bifidus, and L. Casei.
No mention of L. Plantarum here! But the other ones will sour your beer just as well, IMO.

 

[bigbeergeek]

I've kettle soured two beers with fat free Greek yogurt (Greek gods brand and Fage brand). For both I made a 1 L starter with 4 tsp yogurt, kept warm with an electric blanket for 48 hours and pitched the whole thing in the mash. Before pitching I bring the whole mash to a simmer for 5 minutes, then cool to 105*F and pitch the yogurt starter. One beer soured for 48 hrs (nice "tart" level of acidity) the other for 65 hrs (a well-soured beer). Edit: both beers were wonderful. I'd experiment with yogurt soured beers!

 

[RPh_Guy]

There's a distinction between "sour mash" and the more commonly used "kettle sour" processing aka wort souring. The most controlled process is to do the mash followed by a short boil, cool, pre-acidify, and then pitch the bacteria.

+1 for probiotic pills containing L. plantarum
I use a blend

Got the wort down to 3.08 last time I used it to kettle sour.

Refrigeration is important for long-term storage, but traveling with them isn't a big deal.
Here's a reference for @IslandLizard https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/096399699500050X

Yogurt works for a lot of people. Barley malt has LAB if you want to try a wild culture. You could even dry out a yeast lab culture if you wanted to transport it.

 

[IslandLizard]

There's a distinction between "sour mash" and the more commonly used "kettle sour" processing aka wort souring. The most controlled process is to do the mash followed by a short boil, cool, pre-acidify, and then pitch the bacteria.

+1 for probiotic pills containing L. plantarum
I use a blend

Got the wort down to 3.08 last time I used it to kettle sour.

Refrigeration is important for long-term storage, but traveling with them isn't a big deal.
Here's a reference for @IslandLizard https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/096399699500050X

Yogurt works for a lot of people. Barley malt has LAB if you want to try a wild culture. You could even dry out a yeast lab culture if you wanted to transport it.

Thanks for that link! Confirms cool storage is sorely needed for our lacto friends to survive effects of time.

Agreed, sour mash and kettle souring are 2 different processes. Anyone who has let their closed mash tun sit for 2 days knows the effect of (incorrect) sour mashing. Remarkedly, once you get past scooping out the smelly top, the juice on the bottom tastes truly wonderful. Kettle souring gives you much more control, often by capping (filling the headspace) with CO2 to prevent or limit butyric acid from forming.

Exactly, a handful of raw malt will sour your wort, but you have no control over the bacteria in there, so it is definitely a wild culture, hit and miss on results. You could make a LAB starter that way too, so all you're out is 2 liters if it turns putrid.