Optimal 2 roller mill gap for mashing in converted cooler with braid

[Silver_Is_Money]

What is the optimal mill gap for a 2 roller mill by which to maximize efficiency without facing the potential for a stuck mash when using a cooler with braid as the mash tun?

 

[passedpawn]

I haven't used a braid in a long time, but when I did I think the gap was .035", verified with a feeler gauge.

 

[tracyk]

I have been using.037 in my cooler with a bazooka screen without any problem.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Using a gift card makes for a good gap with consistent efficiency with BIAB'ers.
I've heard works fine for 3 vessel setups.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I haven't used a braid in a long time, but when I did I think the gap was .035", verified with a feeler gauge.

Have you switched over to BIAB? What mill gap are you using?

 

[kh54s10]

It also depends on your braid. I hear of people having problems with braids collapsing, stuck sparges, etc. I used a 3/4 inch water heater braid. I can bash it to high heaven with the mash paddle, drain the wort off as fast as it will go, etc and have never had a stuck sparge.

I have used wheat and rye, flaked grains, and double milled without problems.

So what will work for some might not work with yours. But start with what has been suggested, then go finer, carefully, until it seems like you might get a stuck sparge, then back it down.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

It also depends on your braid. I hear of people having problems with braids collapsing, stuck sparges, etc. I used a 3/4 inch water heater braid. I can bash it to high heaven with the mash paddle, drain the wort off as fast as it will go, etc and have never had a stuck sparge.

I have used wheat and rye, flaked grains, and double milled without problems.

So what will work for some might not work with yours. But start with what has been suggested, then go finer, carefully, until it seems like you might get a stuck sparge, then back it down.

Great information and advice! I'm at 0.036", and I guess I'll just leave it there, but I'll try a double crush on the next batch to see what comes of it.

My thanks to all of you for pitching in with good advice.

Anyone for pre-soaking the grains?

 

[mabrungard]

Don't presoak!!! However, you should try conditioning your malt prior to crushing. All you are doing is spraying on enough water to the grain to get the malt not to be 'dusty' and your fingers are ever so slightly moist when you run them through the malt. That teeny amount of water is helping the husks to be more pliable. That's all that is needed.

I too use 0.036" gap and get quite a bit of flour, but the husks are almost completely intact from the conditioning and the low milling speed. The mash permeability is still pretty high. I do use a big hose braid in my tun.

 

[passedpawn]

Have you switched over to BIAB? What mill gap are you using?

Nope, I have a false bottom. It's bulletproof. I've tightened down the mille to almost flour now (no idea the width, but it's as small as it can get, maybe 030. I also changed all the fittings in my system to ensure there are no tight orifices in which a little doughball could get stuck. Finally, I vorlauf plenty until clear, then transfer flow to the kettle.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I've been running an .035 gap forever, but only recently started conditioning the grain (water = 2% of the grist bill by weight).
The improvement on lautering has been profound with no loss of extract efficiency. The dust reduction was a bonus.

I've worked up the courage to drop to .032 on the next brew, just for grins

Cheers!

 

[PartagasD4]

I've have malt conditioning for a couple years now. I have my mill set to .028 and I'm very happy with that. I can mill barley/wheat/oat malt even rye without any change to my mill gap. I just made a Hefe with 60% wheat with no problems at all.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I've have malt conditioning for a couple years now. I have my mill set to .028 and I'm very happy with that. I can mill barley/wheat/oat malt even rye without any change to my mill gap. I just made a Hefe with 60% wheat with no problems at all.

Do you add rice hulls? What sort of mash tun are you using?

 

[day_trippr]

I've have malt conditioning for a couple years now. I have my mill set to .028 and I'm very happy with that. I can mill barley/wheat/oat malt even rye without any change to my mill gap. I just made a Hefe with 60% wheat with no problems at all.

This is reassuring I'm not heading for quicksand

 

[CGVT]

Don't presoak!!! However, you should try conditioning your malt prior to crushing. All you are doing is spraying on enough water to the grain to get the malt not to be 'dusty' and your fingers are ever so slightly moist when you run them through the malt. That teeny amount of water is helping the husks to be more pliable. That's all that is needed.

I too use 0.036" gap and get quite a bit of flour, but the husks are almost completely intact from the conditioning and the low milling speed. The mash permeability is still pretty high. I do use a big hose braid in my tun.

fwiw, I've been running an .035 gap forever, but only recently started conditioning the grain (water = 2% of the grist bill by weight).
The improvement on lautering has been profound with no loss of extract efficiency. The dust reduction was a bonus.

I've worked up the courage to drop to .032 on the next brew, just for grins

Cheers!

I've have malt conditioning for a couple years now. I have my mill set to .028 and I'm very happy with that. I can mill barley/wheat/oat malt even rye without any change to my mill gap. I just made a Hefe with 60% wheat with no problems at all.

Agree on conditioning. You just have to be careful that you don't add too much water. If the grain is too wet, you will gum up your mill and it takes some work to get it clean again.

 

[day_trippr]

The popular folks claim 2% water vs mashed grist bill by weight is the right amount - done right before starting the brew day, of course (unless Da Funk is in Da House )

A tip I picked up was to reserve the last pound of base grain from conditioning, and run that through the mill at the very end to de-cake and dry out the rollers...

Cheers!

 

[CGVT]

The popular folks claim 2% water vs mashed grist bill by weight is the right amount - done right before starting the brew day, of course (unless Da Funk is in Da House )

A tip I picked up was to reserve the last pound of base grain from conditioning, and run that through the mill at the very end to de-cake and dry out the rollers...

Cheers!

Yep. I learned the hard way

If I am on top of my game (rarely) I condition the grain the night before and mill it in the morning.

It really made a difference in my efficiency. It is worth the effort, for sure.

 

[Big Monk]

I use a mash filter, false bottom and grain conditioning. I have my cereal killer set at 0.025".

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I use a mash filter, false bottom and grain conditioning. I have my cereal killer set at 0.025".

It sounds like grain conditioning is the way to go. Any advice as to the procedure?

 

[CGVT]

I use a spray bottle of water, spray a little, mix it up with my hands, spray a little more, mix a little more, etc. The cool kids say to mix 3.2 oz per 10 lbs of grain. https://www.brewersfriend.com/2010/01/16/malt-conditioning/

You will want to add 2% of the weight of the malt bill, in water, to the grain. For example, if you have a 10 pound grain bill, which is 160 ounces, multiply this by .02 (2%) and your result will be 3.2 ounces. This is the WEIGHT of water that you will want to add to your grain bill for conditioning. By doing so, you will thoroughly wet the grain husks, but you will not create a sticky mess in your rollers.The grain will be just a bit damp and shiny.

Now I just do it by sight and feel.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Malt_Conditioning

 

[day_trippr]

My grain bills are typically around 25 pounds, so I split the bill between a pair of buckets, load a spray bottle with RO water 2% of the grain bill weight (this weekend's brew used one cup of water) then spray the grain while stirring it by hand.

It takes about five minutes per bucket, then I lid the buckets and let them sit while I tend to the strike and sparge water. As the liquor is coming up to temperature I mill the grain and load the MLT so it's ready to under-let...

Cheers!

 

[schematix]

Something i came across recently that is also important to consider in relation to the crush is grain bed depth. The deeper the bed, the larger your grind needs to be. If you make it to fine and the grain bed too deep, you're going to stick the mash if you recirculate.

 

[whovous]

Last time around, I tried conditioning with steam instead of a spray bottle, following this advice:

http://beerandwinejournal.com/malt-conditioning/

I've only tried it once, but it was a lot easier and my brew seemed to go a lot smoother as well. YMMV, but I plan to try it again this weekend and next.

 

[schematix]

My grain bills are typically around 25 pounds, so I split the bill between a pair of buckets, load a spray bottle with RO water 2% of the grain bill weight (this weekend's brew used one cup of water) then spray the grain while stirring it by hand.

It takes about five minutes per bucket, then I lid the buckets and let them sit while I tend to the strike and sparge water. As the liquor is coming up to temperature I mill the grain and load the MLT so it's ready to under-let...

Cheers!

I do something similar... split the ~20-30lb of grain between 2 old fermenter buckets. I dump half the water in, lid it, roll it around for about 30 seconds. Then add the other half and repeat.

I found the results are as good as spraying and stirring. I happen to be highly allergic to the grain dust so stirring for me results in hives and a day of itchy hands.

 

[PartagasD4]

Do you add rice hulls? What sort of mash tun are you using?

No rice hulls, not needed. I have the orange 10g HD round cooler with a bazooka screen. My grain bill is usually between 10-15 lbs for a 5 gal batch.

 

[PartagasD4]

This is reassuring I'm not heading for quicksand

After reading this thread I do basically the same thing you do. I don't recirculate though,thought about it, priced it.... no I don't brew enough to justify the cost.
I always wondered why my beers with wheat/rye always took eff hits now that I condition and crush tight I no longer have that problem.

 

[PartagasD4]

Agree on conditioning. You just have to be careful that you don't add too much water. If the grain is too wet, you will gum up your mill and it takes some work to get it clean again.

I will say for me I have found that I can condition just the base malt at 2% water weight and that is sufficient unless an unusual amount of specialty malt.
Then run the specialty/flaked malt through at the end.

 

[Weezy]

2% is roughly 10 ml per pound of grain (0.3 fl.oz. if you prefer)

8.3 lb of grain? 83 ml of water.