opinions on moving from extract to all grain

[grinder143]

as the title says i want to move on. question is if you were doing this would you go biab or the traditional method . i think either way ends up close to the cost . i have a gas burner but think i am converting my kettle to electric. To go traditional it is really only making a mash tun which i think is only a small cost , either way i see it as a wash. i just want better , clearer beer. thanks for suggestions
mike

 

[brick_haus]

A lot of brewers have success and are happy with both methods. To me (3 vessel brewer) it seems it is a matter of available time and space.

 

[csurowiec]

Both methods have the potential to make great beer. I am partial to BIAB because that's what I do. If you can meet up with a local all grain brewer who does either that would be a good chance to see their methods in person and maybe that would help you decide.

 

[PADave]

I'm also partial to BIAB. Can't get much simpler, all you need is a kettle and a bag. Try BIAB, if you don't like it go 3 vessel. I would have to disagree with you about the cost. A lot more equipment needed, and more to clean, when doing more traditional AG brewing.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm also partial to BIAB. Can't get much simpler, all you need is a kettle and a bag. Try BIAB, if you don't like it go 3 vessel. I would have to disagree with you about the cost. A lot more equipment needed, and more to clean, when doing more traditional AG brewing.

I don't know if I'd say there's a lot more equipment needed. I have a cube igloo cooler w/ a ball-valve fitted, a torpedo screen, and that's my mash tun. Probably, what, $60-80 or thereabouts? I also have a mash paddle, but I think I'd need one for BIAB as well.

That's it. I doubt the cleaning is much different than cleaning the bag. I dump out the spent grain, spray the mash tun out, and I'm done.

There's always been one element of BIAB I don't fully understand since I don't do BIAB, and that's sparging. I know some do the no-sparge method, but that leaves sugar behind. I don't like that. I want all that sugar in my wort.

 

[kh54s10]

The cost of BIAB should be lower. How much lower is both dependent on choices and perspective. $70 - $100 for a cooler mash tun may seem very expensive to some and not so to others. One pot and a bag, possibly a hoist for BIAB. My 3 tier has a HLT on a turkey fryer burner. 10 gallon SS pot with a sightglass, thermometer, and valve. The mash tun is a ten gallon water cooler, water heater braid, and valve. The BK is a 10 gallon SS pot on a Bayou Classic SP10 burner.

I will part with the other opinions here and say that I much prefer to brew on my 3 vessel rig. I went that way first so I have the proper equipment for it. I do not have the proper rig for BIAB. I do 5 gallon batches on my 3 tier and that would be very difficult for me to do BIAB. I don't have a hoist and no really good way to drain the wort from the bag.

That said I am wanting to buy a Grainfather.

Either way will work. Get some equipment and do it!

 

[bucfan1234]

I don't know if I'd say there's a lot more equipment needed. I have a cube igloo cooler w/ a ball-valve fitted, a torpedo screen, and that's my mash tun. Probably, what, $60-80 or thereabouts? I also have a mash paddle, but I think I'd need one for BIAB as well.

That's it. I doubt the cleaning is much different than cleaning the bag. I dump out the spent grain, spray the mash tun out, and I'm done.

There's always been one element of BIAB I don't fully understand since I don't do BIAB, and that's sparging. I know some do the no-sparge method, but that leaves sugar behind. I don't like that. I want all that sugar in my wort.

This is what I did. It doesn't have be expensive.

I tried BIAB, and I made some very good beers that way. Ultimately, I moved on to the Mash tun because its just easier, and the cost to try it out was very low.

I got tired of constantly babysitting my BIAB mashes. Add a little heat, watch temp, add a little heat, etc... Lifting the heavy bag and trying to squeeze it (rather than super easy batch sparging). Then cleaning the bag, which is more difficult than dumping a mash tun.

After my fourth BIAB batch, I decided to switch. I took a 40 quart Igloo that I already had, bought a close nipple a couple of washers, a ball valve, a coupling a hose barb and a bazooka screen, and I haven't looked back. Cost $30-$35.

Mashing, even without the budget HERMS I added, is much more set and forget in an insulated cooler than in a BIAB kettle. Cleaning it is as simple as dumping and hosing it out.

My first HLT was a old used igloo water cooler that I got for free and fitted a ball valve to total cost (about $10-12), and I still use it much of the time.

Anyway, I am very happy with the decision to move to all grain, and then to a three vessel system. Even though I made some very good beers with extract, and still do sometimes, the all grain beer is just better. I also have more fun planning recipes from scratch, etc.

Good luck on the move to all grain, and have fun.

 

[Atlmustang]

I do BIAB and love it. Very simple and allows me to focus more on what I am doing and thats making beer. Not making sure the hot liqour tank is heated, this valve or that valve is closed, my sparge water is the right temp and the right volume is used, etc.

I brewed a CDA today. My target OG was 1.084 and I hit 1.080. No sparge hasnt hurt me yet. You just have to lauter over a strainer and give the bag a little squeeze. Youll get your sugar.

I dont know where you get that equipment wont cost out much differently. Witha three tier you need a kettle and 2 igloos, hoses, valves, stands, etc. with BIAB $20 for a bag is all you need. I went from extract to BIAB all grain with $9 to purchase the bag from my LHBS. No additional equipment. Not to mention BIAB will save you a bunch of time with a lot less water to heat and keep properly heated.

 

[brewbama]

I went with the Cheap and Easy batch sparge method. Denny Conn (web site) and Don Osborn (You Tube) is where I learned.

 

[GPP33]

It's about a wash IMO.

BIAB - never done it but you'll need a boil kettle, bag and probably a hoist if you want to do 5-10 gal batches.

3 Tier - you'll need a mash run and something to heat the sparge water in. You can go crazy with an expensive brew tower but you certainly don't need to.

Difference in cleaning is insignificant, misc odds and ends add up with both options. BIAB seems like it might be insignificantly easier but like I said, I've never done it. And don't some BIAB brewers sparge?

 

[bucfan1234]

I do BIAB and love it. Very simple and allows me to focus more on what I am doing and thats making beer. Not making sure the hot liqour tank is heated, this valve or that valve is closed, my sparge water is the right temp and the right volume is used, etc.

I brewed a CDA today. My target OG was 1.084 and I hit 1.080. No sparge hasnt hurt me yet. You just have to lauter over a strainer and give the bag a little squeeze. Youll get your sugar.

I dont know where you get that equipment wont cost out much differently. Witha three tier you need a kettle and 2 igloos, hoses, valves, stands, etc. with BIAB $20 for a bag is all you need. I went from extract to BIAB all grain with $9 to purchase the bag from my LHBS. No additional equipment. Not to mention BIAB will save you a bunch of time with a lot less water to heat and keep properly heated.

You can do a three vessel for very little money. You don't really need stands.

Add a few dollars in cpvc, thermotube or silicone tube and gravity to what I posted above, and you are all set.

 

[grinder143]

My reasoning for the same price give or take . I am an Electrican do wire an element and temp controller is pretty easy . I have always used brew sticks as it is. It was my original plan to use a igloo to make a mash tun . I have it now and use it for making a little shine now and then . I can go either way as I can weld and build a stand or a hoist . Really looking for ease and quality .

 

[d3track]

In all honesty, you are just looking at two ways of doing the same thing. I have done both, and did not find advantages in BIAB that I expected, and settled on a batch sparge system.

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with BIAB, but when people try to attack you for not doing it their, that is a big turn off from the process. Both BIAB or two/three vessel systems make equally wonderful beers. The equipment will range in implementation, but will often come out as a wash.

The important part of this is that there is not wrong answer, what gives you the most enjoyment from the hobby is what the correct answer is.

 

[Morrey]

Probably lots of brewers want to sway you to their way of thinking, and if they do 3V, that's what you should do as well. Same with BIAB.

I switched from extract to BIAB perhaps 50 batches ago. I have great success, make great beers and hit high efficiency numbers. But, I had never done 3V and considered it as a possible improvement to BIAB.

A buddy had gone from home brew to a 5 barrel craft system and offered to sell me his MLT equipment. He and I brewed a beer on his gear and I learned a good bit from him. Long story short, I let the beer we made do the talking. I honestly wouldn't turn around for the difference in the taste and quality of a beer done with BIAB vs 3V.

Seems to be a bit more to do with his 3V setup than with my BIAB. I do have a good place with rafters and pulleys which makes a difference.

All in all, I think it is probably what you are used to. Either works and can give you quality beer if the same dedication is given to both. BIAB just seems to be a bit more simple, but I am used to this system.

 

[mongoose33]

Probably lots of brewers want to sway you to their way of thinking, and if they do 3V, that's what you should do as well. Same with BIAB.

There's a natural tendency to want others to validate our choices. If someone chooses BIAB when I'm doing a traditional mash tun, it's as if they're criticizing my choice. Maybe I made the wrong choice! Maybe I'm a numbnuts!

I chose to do a traditional mash tun because I lucked into the deal of the century which included a ferm chamber refrigerator, mash tun, inkbird, a whole ton of other stuff, for $150. Sold off two carboys for $25 and my net was $125.

So I was into all grain pretty easily. I was in fact ready to do BIAB, I just didn't have the right kind of kettle for it.

Which is better? It all depends on the values and needs and resources of the brewer. Both methods turn starch into sugar.

I switched from extract to BIAB perhaps 50 batches ago. I have great success, make great beers and hit high efficiency numbers. But, I had never done 3V and considered it as a possible improvement to BIAB.

A buddy had gone from home brew to a 5 barrel craft system and offered to sell me his MLT equipment. He and I brewed a beer on his gear and I learned a good bit from him. Long story short, I let the beer we made do the talking. I honestly wouldn't turn around for the difference in the taste and quality of a beer done with BIAB vs 3V.

Seems to be a bit more to do with his 3V setup than with my BIAB. I do have a good place with rafters and pulleys which makes a difference.

All in all, I think it is probably what you are used to. Either works and can give you quality beer if the same dedication is given to both. BIAB just seems to be a bit more simple, but I am used to this system.

If the beer is great, that's all the validation one needs.

 

[ChelisHubby]

I don't know if I'd say there's a lot more equipment needed. I have a cube igloo cooler w/ a ball-valve fitted, a torpedo screen, and that's my mash tun. Probably, what, $60-80 or thereabouts? I also have a mash paddle, but I think I'd need one for BIAB as well.

That's it. I doubt the cleaning is much different than cleaning the bag. I dump out the spent grain, spray the mash tun out, and I'm done.

There's always been one element of BIAB I don't fully understand since I don't do BIAB, and that's sparging. I know some do the no-sparge method, but that leaves sugar behind. I don't like that. I want all that sugar in my wort.

I am the same as I want all of my sugars in my wort. if it takes me a little longer I dont mind. I have the time, but I paid for the sugars.

 

[pdxal]

It's about a wash IMO.

BIAB - never done it but you'll need a boil kettle, bag and probably a hoist if you want to do 5-10 gal batches.

3 Tier - you'll need a mash run and something to heat the sparge water in. You can go crazy with an expensive brew tower but you certainly don't need to.

Difference in cleaning is insignificant, misc odds and ends add up with both options. BIAB seems like it might be insignificantly easier but like I said, I've never done it. And don't some BIAB brewers sparge?

The sparge consists of putting the grain bag in another pot and pouring water over it, waiting a few minutes, and squeezing the bag again.

 

[55x11]

The cost of BIAB should be lower. How much lower is both dependent on choices and perspective. $70 - $100 for a cooler mash tun may seem very expensive to some and not so to others. One pot and a bag, possibly a hoist for BIAB. My 3 tier has a HLT on a turkey fryer burner. 10 gallon SS pot with a sightglass, thermometer, and valve. The mash tun is a ten gallon water cooler, water heater braid, and valve. The BK is a 10 gallon SS pot on a Bayou Classic SP10 burner.

I will part with the other opinions here and say that I much prefer to brew on my 3 vessel rig. I went that way first so I have the proper equipment for it. I do not have the proper rig for BIAB. I do 5 gallon batches on my 3 tier and that would be very difficult for me to do BIAB. I don't have a hoist and no really good way to drain the wort from the bag.

That said I am wanting to buy a Grainfather.

Either way will work. Get some equipment and do it!

agree with above.
dedicated mashtun (like 70qt cooler) gives you a few advantages.
1. You can get away with smaller pot, or, inversely, brew a bigger volume beer, since grains won't be in the pot.
2. You can scale to larger volumes in general - I brew 10G (and sometimes 15G batches) which would be impractical with BIAB. You can also brew higher ABV beers requiring a lot of grain.
3. You can mash overnight (or over longer than 1 hour) without having to babysit the pot. Just walk away and come back 1 hour or 8 hours later.

 

[bobeer]

I started out biab when i started ag batches. I would have gone straight 3 vessel but cost was an issue and still is.
I eventually pieced together a 6 gallon mash tun for about 60 bucks.
Sparging sucked with the biab method. I didn't want to build a hoist because i was brewing inside and didn't want the clutter.
Cleaning the bag is much worse than cleaning a mash tun. The bag folds up on you and you have to keep adjusting it. With the mash tun you just rinse out and let it dry.

If you have the money and time to brew on a 3 tiered system then id skip biab and build a mash tun.

 

[martiniw2olives]

My opinion is that 3 vessel trains you better on the brewing process, and considered BIAB as an excellent shortcut. I have done both and recommend 3 vessel. This is just one man's opinion.

 

[brandonlovesbeer]

My opinion is, Yes

 

[RM-MN]

This is what I did. It doesn't have be expensive.

I tried BIAB, and I made some very good beers that way. Ultimately, I moved on to the Mash tun because its just easier, and the cost to try it out was very low.

I got tired of constantly babysitting my BIAB mashes. Add a little heat, watch temp, add a little heat, etc... Lifting the heavy bag and trying to squeeze it (rather than super easy batch sparging). Then cleaning the bag, which is more difficult than dumping a mash tun.

After my fourth BIAB batch, I decided to switch. I took a 40 quart Igloo that I already had, bought a close nipple a couple of washers, a ball valve, a coupling a hose barb and a bazooka screen, and I haven't looked back. Cost $30-$35.

Mashing, even without the budget HERMS I added, is much more set and forget in an insulated cooler than in a BIAB kettle. Cleaning it is as simple as dumping and hosing it out.

My first HLT was a old used igloo water cooler that I got for free and fitted a ball valve to total cost (about $10-12), and I still use it much of the time.

Anyway, I am very happy with the decision to move to all grain, and then to a three vessel system. Even though I made some very good beers with extract, and still do sometimes, the all grain beer is just better. I also have more fun planning recipes from scratch, etc.

Good luck on the move to all grain, and have fun.

Don't do it this way. Properly milled grains don't need the temperature adjusted, the fine milling that you can get away with in BIAB will convert quickly so the temperature never falls below a acceptable amount. Using a ratchet pulley or just a pulley and tying off the rope makes lifting the bag a cinch. With that squeezing the bag becomes unnecessary to as the weigh of the grains will cause their own squeezing.

Cleaning the bag is simple too. Dump it, rinse it in warm water, hang to dry. I'd take that over cleaning a mash tun any day.

I've never had to deal with a stuck sparge. The closest was a batch with lots of unmalted rye and that sticky mess wouldn't have even drained with a conventional tun, I had to force the wort out of the bag.

 

[RM-MN]

Since you have been making beer with extract you must have a boil kettle. Blow a wad of cash on a bag. I bought a pair of 5 gallon paint strainer bags and it cost me $3,76. Since my boil kettle was only 5 gallons, I made a 2 1/2 gallon batch to see if I could do all grain. I don't have an LHBS with a mill (closest is 150 miles) so I bought a cheap Corona mill to give this a try. First batch was way over the expected OG because that cheap mill worked great and my efficiency was way above expected. From that experience I learned how easy BIAB could be and with more brews I learned that all grain doesn't have to take all day (less than 3 hours for the small batch, longer for bigger batches as I have to wait for more water to heat up using the same burner. Use what you have and add the paint strainer bag to give this a try. You can then decide for yourself if you want to continue with all grain and if you want to upgrade your equipment for larger batches you will have a better sense of the system you want to build.

 

[bucfan1234]

Since you have been making beer with extract you must have a boil kettle. Blow a wad of cash on a bag. I bought a pair of 5 gallon paint strainer bags and it cost me $3,76. Since my boil kettle was only 5 gallons, I made a 2 1/2 gallon batch to see if I could do all grain. I don't have an LHBS with a mill (closest is 150 miles) so I bought a cheap Corona mill to give this a try. First batch was way over the expected OG because that cheap mill worked great and my efficiency was way above expected. From that experience I learned how easy BIAB could be and with more brews I learned that all grain doesn't have to take all day (less than 3 hours for the small batch, longer for bigger batches as I have to wait for more water to heat up using the same burner. Use what you have and add the paint strainer bag to give this a try. You can then decide for yourself if you want to continue with all grain and if you want to upgrade your equipment for larger batches you will have a better sense of the system you want to build.

This is a good idea, and essentially how I got into all grain. Though I bought my bag from the LHBS.

In fact, my first ever batch of real beer, not counting Mr. Beer a decade ago , was a one gallon all grain BIAB Espresso Stout that I did on my stove top in a kitchen pot. It turned out great, and it is what got me into brewing.

Ultimately, I went to a mash tun, but there isn't anything wrong with BIAB like you say, it is a good way to try it out to see if you will like it.

 

[bucfan1234]

Don't do it this way. Properly milled grains don't need the temperature adjusted, the fine milling that you can get away with in BIAB will convert quickly so the temperature never falls below a acceptable amount. Using a ratchet pulley or just a pulley and tying off the rope makes lifting the bag a cinch. With that squeezing the bag becomes unnecessary to as the weigh of the grains will cause their own squeezing.

Cleaning the bag is simple too. Dump it, rinse it in warm water, hang to dry. I'd take that over cleaning a mash tun any day.

I've never had to deal with a stuck sparge. The closest was a batch with lots of unmalted rye and that sticky mess wouldn't have even drained with a conventional tun, I had to force the wort out of the bag.

Thanks for the advice. I could have put more effort into dialing in the process before I moved on

I made some very good beer with BIAB, including a really great batch of Sam Smiths Winter Welcome clone.

 

[RM-MN]

This is a good idea, and essentially how I got into all grain.

In fact, my first ever batch of real beer was a one gallon all grain BIAB Espresso Stout that I did on my stove top in a kitchen pot. It turned out great, and it is what got me into brewing.

Ultimately, I went to a mash tun, but there isn't anything wrong with BIAB like you say, it is a good way to try it out to see if you will like it.

And you made the choice with knowledge of how you would like to do it. Congratulations.

 

[bucfan1234]

And you made the choice with knowledge of how you would like to do it. Congratulations.

I was just sharing my experience and agreeing with you by the way??

The OP asked for help, and I thought sharing my moving on to all grain experience may help him out since I tried both methods. :dunno:

 

[Grinnan5150]

I've done both successfully. This is just my humble opinion but for me BIAB is a much better alternative to the typical 3 tier system. Both make great beer but BIAB is easier, less equipment, less mess and less time. If you're going for that brewhouse experience or looking to go pro I would probably stick with 3 tier but if it's just an enjoyable hobby why not save the time, expense and mess and do BIAB?

 

[skraeling]

That said I am wanting to buy a Grainfather.

Im wanting to go down from my 3 vessel to a grainfather. im tired of my setup and I hate having to brew outside.... seriously its what 4* outside right now?

 

[chickypad]

For me batch size makes a big difference. For 10+ gals I like my 3 vessel system with pumps. For small batches in the 2-4 gal range that I can do stovetop and stick in a warm oven I love BIAB. Whatever you decide, have fun!