Opinions on homebrew competition circuit

[douglasbarbin]

As the title states, I am trying to solicit a few opinions here.

Most of the homebrew clubs in my state have "joined forces" to create a competition circuit, with each club hosting a competition that is part of the circuit. Points are given and at the end of the year, there is a "brewer of the year" and "club of the year" given out to whoever has the highest point total. The idea is to crown the best homebrewer/club in the state each year. I think this is all great, and I am 100% for it.

What I am looking for opinions on is this: There is a certain individual who lives in an adjoining state, supposedly travels to our state fairly often on business, and has been named an honorary member (or whatever the case may be) of a local club, despite being a member of a different club in his home state. I have been told that he attends meetings for the club in our state sometimes when he is in town. This person is a top-notch homebrewer, having placed beers at NHC. He regularly wins competitions in his home state. In fact, his home state has a similar circuit, and he is in first place by a wide margin (something like a ratio of 5:1 over the 2nd place brewer). I have judged this person's beers before in competition and they are excellent, to be sure.

What bothers me is that this person enters every competition in both states (and probably others as well, if I had to guess) and he enters quite a few beers in each. For example, in our most recent competition, out of 64 total entries, he had 6 beers place (spread across 3 categories). I don't know how many beers he entered, but obviously it was at least 6. I don't think that anybody else entered nearly as many. This theme is pretty consistent across all of our circuit's competitions this year, to the point where it is almost a running gag once the awards ceremonies start (which, needless to say, he is never present at since he lives several hours away from our state's border).

So we have a guy who is an excellent homebrewer, lives out of state, enters twice as many beers as anyone else, and then walks away with half of the competition's medals. He is going to win the state's "homebrewer of the year" award by a wide margin, despite not actually living in the state. The club he is affiliated with is also going to win "club of the year" by a wide margin. To be fair, they could likely win it without his contributions, but having him as a ringer, so to speak, has effectively put the title out of reach for everyone else.

I don't have an issue with the other club letting a guy from out of state (who occasionally attends their meetings) enter their competition. I know many members of the club and they are great guys, many of whom are also excellent brewers. What rubs me the wrong way is that this brewer I am mentioning seems to be taking advantage of a somewhat loose set of rules in order to enter as many beers in as many competitions as possible, in competitions that he arguably shouldn't be entering at all. This is the first year for our circuit, so there aren't many established rules yet, but I feel like allowing this guy to do this goes against the spirit of our statewide circuit and its competitions. I don't know why he does it, because he enters the same beers in lots of other competitions and he doesn't need the feedback. It has basically become a medal-hording bonanza for this person.

To summarize all of that, I think that it's in poor taste. It hurts other brewers that might have had medal-winning beers, had this guy not taken 2/3 of the medals for multiple categories. I have considered suggesting that some of the rules be amended so that this sort of thing doesn't happen in the future. Specifically, something to prevent an out-of-state brewer from dominating our state circuit competitions. Before I do that, I would like to know what you guys think about this whole thing.

Am I just being a sore loser here? Is this guy being a jerk? Please, share your thoughts.

 

[braidenlowe15]

I think that rules should be in place to prevent actions such as those listed. He is monopolizing the competition.

 

[FarmerTed]

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. As long as you hold competitions, stuff like that will happen. At least he's paying for all his entries, right? Shipping costs must be enormous, too. I would expect he may lose interest and not send in as much in following years. Creating lots of rules may cause more problems down the line than they solve.

 

[Gavin C]

Certainly sounds like someone is going against the spirit of, if not the letter of the law with regard to the competitions.

It's an unfortunate situation as any measures taken could be construed as sore loser syndrome or punishing a brewer for their success. I wouldn't see it that way as I think you present a good case for some rule tweaking in the future.

I have entered 1 competition thus far and eagerly awaiting the feedback.

There is the lone star circuit here in Texas and one brewer is leagues ahead of the competition. Entering far more beers than others it would seem. After the first competition on the circuit no one else is in with a shout of winning. Again nothing wrong being done. Just seems ungentlemanly

 

[MaxStout]

Looks like you've got a ringer. But if the rules of your state's comp allow out of state entries, it seems legit. Maybe if this guy sweeps the awards at the comp, enough in-state brewers will be pissed and someone might amend those rules to level the field.

How well do you know the people who organize and run your state's comp? This might be an opportunity to share some of your thoughts on the matter.

 

[douglasbarbin]

There is the lone star circuit here in Texas and one brewer is leagues ahead of the competition. Entering far more beers than others it would seem. After the first competition on the circuit no one else is in with a shout of winning. Again nothing wrong being done. Just seems ungentlemanly

I am very familiar with said brewer...

 

[stpug]

To me it sounds like you're skeered. If you don't want him to walk away with your medals then enter beers that beat his. This is the kind of inspiration you need to "up your game" - finally, some competition. Brew better beers and the problem is solved.

 

[Gavin C]

I am very familiar with said brewer...

Is he ringer from Louisiana?

 

[douglasbarbin]

Is he ringer from Louisiana?

No, but the same guy may have a similar insurmountable lead in the Bayou State Circuit

 

[douglasbarbin]

To me it sounds like you're skeered. If you don't want him to walk away with your medals then enter beers that beat his. This is the kind of inspiration you need to "up your game" - finally, some competition. Brew better beers and the problem is solved.

I get what you're saying to an extent, but it isn't feasible to do this because 1) this is an award-winning brewer on the national level, and 2) he enters way more beers than anyone else has time or resources to brew.

I don't have as big of a problem with him taking a medal here and there. I just don't like the fact that he enters so many beers that the deck is stacked in his favor. If he entered a couple beers, no more than one category, then I think it would go over a lot better.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The only possible solution I see remotely fair is enforcing an entry limit.

If he's a member of a club, and shows up to their meetings, and pays for entries, he has every right to enter. Are you going to punish other members who only show up to a few meetings? Or members who live outside of an arbitrary boundary? Because my club is based in one town, should we ban members from other towns? No.

If he simply has time to enter more beers and others can't, then that's fine, but is still not an unfair advantage, since the quality of beers is all that matters. Theoretically if everyone else upped their game to his level, wouldn't matter how many beers he entered because all the other entries would still be better, even if everyone else only entered 1 beer and he entered 50.

So as already said, all this means is that others need to up their game to his level, or accept that they'll lose. It's not poor sportsmanship. It's being good. It's a COMPETITION. In no way, shape, or form, is it against the spirit of a comp to try and win it.

Sorry to say, but yes, it sounds like sore loser to me.

 

[stpug]

I get what you're saying to an extent, but it isn't feasible to do this because 1) this is an award-winning brewer on the national level, and 2) he enters way more beers than anyone else has time or resources to brew.

I don't have as big of a problem with him taking a medal here and there. I just don't like the fact that he enters so many beers that the deck is stacked in his favor. If he entered a couple beers, no more than one category, then I think it would go over a lot better.

I get it.

You and your homebrew club members are not award-winning brewers, and never will be (especially on a "national" level). There's no possibility in this world that you could even strive for such achievements. It's unattainable.

You and your club members cannot brew enough beers to compete - let alone "good" beers. Divide and conquer is unreasonable AND impossible. Brewing to your fortè is moot and pointless.

I would probably just hang up my hat and call it a day. There's no point in competing in a competition that you cannot win. The effort is a waste and worthless - not to mention the entry fees you lose.

I get it.

---end sarcasm---

Fight, dude! Fight! Brew your best and enter it. If you don't win then adjust and brew again, and enter again next time. Fight!!!

You don't have to live in mediocrity; you, too, can be a "national award-winning brewer" if you so choose (you just have to choose to be).

Do or don't; there is no "try"

 

[chickypad]

Yeah, kinda sounds like sour grapes to me. Would you be so bent out of shape about him flooding your comp with entries if he wasn't placing at all? What if one of your home state brewers starts sweeping everything, are you going to put a stop to it? If you think it's not fair because it's meant to be a state specific comp and he is only a part time visitor, then put in a rule that you need to be state resident. If it's really that you want to spread the medals around and not let one person sweep (sounds kinda grade school, but whatever) then limit the number of categories one brewer can enter. I agree with stpug and Qhrumpf, I would take it as a challenge for your club to up their game and just beat him.

 

[douglasbarbin]

The only possible solution I see remotely fair is enforcing an entry limit.

If he's a member of a club, and shows up to their meetings, and pays for entries, he has every right to enter. Are you going to punish other members who only show up to a few meetings? Or members who live outside of an arbitrary boundary? Because my club is based in one town, should we ban members from other towns? No.

If he simply has time to enter more beers and others can't, then that's fine, but is still not an unfair advantage, since the quality of beers is all that matters. Theoretically if everyone else upped their game to his level, wouldn't matter how many beers he entered because all the other entries would still be better, even if everyone else only entered 1 beer and he entered 50.

So as already said, all this means is that others need to up their game to his level, or accept that they'll lose. It's not poor sportsmanship. It's being good. It's a COMPETITION. In no way, shape, or form, is it against the spirit of a comp to try and win it.

Sorry to say, but yes, it sounds like sore loser to me.

These are good points. You gave me exactly what I asked for, your opinion, so no need to apologize.

The entry limit (something like only 1 entry per category, regardless of subcategory) might be worth considering. That way, it prevents one person (regardless of who that person might be) from taking all the medals for a particular category.

It just seems odd that the "Louisiana Homebrewer of the Year" (this is exactly how it is written in the rules) is going to be from another state. I don't think that's what was intended when this circuit was created.

 

[douglasbarbin]

Yeah, kinda sounds like sour grapes to me. Would you be so bent out of shape about him flooding your comp with entries if he wasn't placing at all?

I would not. If he wasn't placing at all, then I could safely assume that he is entering in order to get feedback, become a better brewer, etc. This guy is way past that point. As I mentioned, it is purely a grab for medals and accolades. He has won them by virtue of being the best brewer in each competition; there is no disputing that.

What if one of your home state brewers starts sweeping everything, are you going to put a stop to it? If you think it's not fair because it's meant to be a state specific comp and he is only a part time visitor, then put in a rule that you need to be state resident.

I would have no problem with a local brewer sweeping everything. The official rule is "An individual homebrewer must be a resident of Louisiana or a member of a Louisiana Homebrew Club to be eligible for Homebrewer of the Year." The person in question competes as a member of a Louisiana club and at least one other club in a different state, although he is listed under the current membership for neither club. It seems like kind of a gray area to me.

If it's really that you want to spread the medals around and not let one person sweep (sounds kinda grade school, but whatever) then limit the number of categories one brewer can enter. I agree with stpug and Qhrumpf, I would take it as a challenge for your club to up their game and just beat him.

I think that's what it is going to come down to. Everyone can take it as a challenge, although it is quite a challenge. It's sort of like if you had an amateur basketball tournament and Michael Jordan showed up.

I can say that if my beers ever get good enough to consistently beat this other brewer's beers, it will be quite a feeling of achievement! :rockin:

 

[douglasbarbin]

Stuff...

Touche'

I think the course of action for me is going to be to suck it up, come back with a better effort, and let the cards fall where they may. If I lose, well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. I can take pride knowing that I lost fairly and would have beaten all other competitors.

Thanks for the opinions shared in this thread. It helps knowing that there are those that sympathize and those who disagree. I really just wanted to get this out there to see if I was totally off-base or whatever.

 

[flars]

Every club in the state should bring in ringers. Could also have an award for which club had the most ringers. Probably not in the rules the ringer needs to attend club meetings. Opens the competition to ringers that live anywhere on the planet.

Would this ruin the intent of the competition? Sure would, but the intent has already been affected by the glory hound and the one club playing the rules.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The official rule is "An individual homebrewer must be a resident of Louisiana or a member of a Louisiana Homebrew Club to be eligible for Homebrewer of the Year." The person in question competes as a member of a Louisiana club and at least one other club in a different state, although he is listed under the current membership for neither club. It seems like kind of a gray area to me.

Seems perfectly black and white to me, no gray area. Unless there's a rule about dual club membership (which seems stupid to me), he's perfectly legit.

Shorten it to "...must be a resident of Louisiana." Period. Problem solved. But that just limits this particular brewer, and doesn't actually change anything. And if he moves across the border, boom, same problem.

Either that, or it's on the club that he's a member of to kick him out. Which seems like poor form to me.

Your other option is setting up some sort of divisions system. Have an open category (which he'll likely win) that anyone can enter. Have a prestigious high-caliber division, or even a pro-brewer division, where the best of the best can go head to head (which if you opened up to pros maybe he wouldn't win). I'd even consider driving to LA to judge it for you . And then a easier division, where you have limits on how long you've been brewing, or number of beers, or number of comps you've entered, or something.

Of course, the logistics of that would be a lot harder and the rules tougher to enforce (and still no guarantee of lack of sweep in the lower division even without cheating, some folks just get really good really fast, especially if sticking to proven recipes), but if you have the manpower, funds, and will to make it happen, that would also level the playing field somewhat.

 

[douglasbarbin]

Every club in the state should bring in ringers. Could also have an award for which club had the most ringers. Probably not in the rules the ringer needs to attend club meetings. Opens the competition to ringers that live anywhere on the planet.

Would this ruin the intent of the competition? Sure would, but the intent has already been affected by the glory hound and the one club playing the rules.

BRB...making Ray Daniels, Denny Conn, etc. honorary members of our club :fro:

 

[Qhrumphf]

BRB...making Ray Daniels, Denny Conn, etc. honorary members of our club :fro:

If you're going that route, go with Jamil and Gordon, the champions of the "NHC Carpet Bomb" strategy.

 

[douglasbarbin]

Shorten it to "...must be a resident of Louisiana." Period. Problem solved. But that just limits this particular brewer, and doesn't actually change anything. And if he moves across the border, boom, same problem.

To me, that's probably the only feasible suggestion. If he moves across the border, that's fine. It would be within the spirit of the competition and he truly would be the best brewer in Louisiana (assuming he wins). No problem with that whatsoever.

Technically he is currently within the rules, but it seems "ungentlemanly", for lack of a better term. But I suppose that he has the right to enter any competition for which he is eligible.

 

[Hamaki]

I showed dogs for a couple of years and soon discovered that the winners were less often the best dog in the ring and more often owned or bred by members of the inner circle. In your case it sounds like the winner produces a superior product and is not just connected. I have a hard time finding fault with that. He's also a valid contestant under the present rules. I think your choices are change the rules, accept how things are, be a more competitive brewer or get out of the competition circuit.

 

[rawlus]

What happens when the brewer of the year for two different states faces off against himself in the finals?

While probably okay according to the current rules, I think it's disingenuous to enter comps for brewer if the year in a state you don't reside in in addition to your home state. We don't see this in other areas of competition so not sure why everyone thinks is legit to do so in brewing. Not taking anything away from the prowess of this anonymous brewer, but let's say this person had the means to enter his entire batches into all 50 state circuits and claim brewer of the year in each? Silly right?

I dont think it's necessarily sour grapes, but it probably takes some of the enjoyment out of competing for others who participate. And in the end, the standings end up not really being an accurate representation of the state circuit by residency at least. So to me it's sort of a spirit of competition thing... And encouraging newer Brewers to participate.

 

[chickypad]

Are you sure you're going to have no problem whatsoever if he moves across the border?

If he wasn't placing at all, then I could safely assume that he is entering in order to get feedback, become a better brewer, etc. This guy is way past that point. As I mentioned, it is purely a grab for medals and accolades. He has won them by virtue of being the best brewer in each competition; there is no disputing that.

If so, what's this about? Dang the nerve of the guy, entering with the sole purpose to win! And then actually winning because - can you believe it -he's the best!

If you truly believe the main goal is to get feedback and become a better brewer then he's not hurting any of the other entrants, they are still getting that. Don't get me wrong, I can understand the frustration. I just think you need to admit what it is, you're pissed because no one can beat him. So channel that anger, embrace it, and get to it!! :rockin:

 

[douglasbarbin]

Are you sure you're going to have no problem whatsoever if he moves across the border?



If so, what's this about? Dang the nerve of the guy, entering with the sole purpose to win! And then actually winning because - can you believe it -he's the best!

If you truly believe the main goal is to get feedback and become a better brewer then he's not hurting any of the other entrants, they are still getting that. Don't get me wrong, I can understand the frustration. I just think you need to admit what it is, you're pissed because no one can beat him. So channel that anger, embrace it, and get to it!! :rockin:

I don't really have any anger about the situation, as you put it. It's more of a "can you believe this bullsh!&" type of situation.

Again, it's really just the fact that he does not reside in the state. If this were NHC or some other large, multi-region competition that he was winning, then I wouldn't even think about saying anything (even considering the carpet-bombing strategy). As it stands, I'm not in the running, but somebody is going to lose "Louisiana Homebrewer of the Year" to a guy that doesn't even live in Louisiana. It just feels a bit disingenuous.

 

[chickypad]

Fair enough, I'd lobby to get the rules changed.

 

[beergolf]

Shorten it to "...must be a resident of Louisiana." Period. Problem solved. But that just limits this particular brewer, and doesn't actually change anything. And if he moves across the border, boom, same problem.

I think the rule they have now is fine and very clear.

Making it just for residents from the state could be a problem. What would happen if someone lived just across the border and the closest brew club was in the state? And the closest home brew club in their home state was much farther away?

I know Where I live I am just across the border from Philly and often thing are close across the border.. In fact I am closer to Center City Philly than many parts of the city.

So making a rule to try to eliminate him may disqualify many other brewers.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I think the rule they have now is fine and very clear.

Making it just for residents from the state could be a problem. What would happen if someone lived just across the border and the closest brew club was in the state? And the closest home brew club in their home state was much farther away?

I know Where I live I am just across the border from Philly and often thing are close across the border.. In fact I am closer to Center City Philly than many parts of the city.

So making a rule to try to eliminate him may disqualify many other brewers.

I completely and totally agree.

Where I live, DC, MD, and VA are all very much the same place, and VA people are members of DC clubs, and DC people members of VA clubs, and the same between MD, and some clubs regularly meet anywhere in the area.

Some comps (like the DC Fair) so have residency requirements- regardless of club a non-DC resident could not enter. But others require either residency, or membership in a club that's a guild member (this happens in MD a lot). There are many of us who are members of multiple clubs in the area.

I guess where I personally would draw the "spirit of the comp" line is participation in membership.

Me personally, I'm a member of three clubs, but I rarely go to the meetings of one (once or twice a year at the most, may occasioanlly show up to an event, but am semi-active on their Facebook, but was much more active before my main club formed), one I've never gone to a single meeting, and finally signed up as a member just to have access to a specific event, and one club that I'm very much actively involved in. Whenever I enter a comp, that's the one I list affiliation with. Now, were I to enter a MD only comp with a guild requirement, I'd have to change that. But I've paid dues to that club, so I'm entitled to do so, as that club has in turn allied with the appropriate guild.

I guess what I'm trying to say, from an ethical perspective regardless of rules, if someone lives outside of Louisana but is primarily involved with an LA club, pays dues if applicable, participates in the club whatsoever, and shows up to stuff when possible (which may not always be possible), then as far as I'm concerned they're members of the club and entitled to enter. If all they did was sign onto an email list, never show up to anything or participate in anything, don't have to pay dues, and are literally just adding their name to a list for the sake of getting access to a comp, then I can see folks getting a little more irked. It sounds to me like the guy does work locally, and shows up to some club meetings. In my book, that makes him a legit club member.

 

[Teromous]

This is the first year for our circuit, so there aren't many established rules yet...

Then you should work at establishing some more rules.

...he doesn't need the feedback. It has basically become a medal-hording bonanza for this person.

Not every person enters competitions for feedback. For some people it's about being successful and having a trophy of some sort to display.

To summarize all of that, I think that it's in poor taste. It hurts other brewers that might have had medal-winning beers, had this guy not taken 2/3 of the medals for multiple categories.

It's your competition so you can really decide how to set it up. If this really is a problem you could consider having an advanced, intermediate, and beginner category so that more people can get medals. You could also simply ask the guy to retire from local competitions. Give him a plaque or something and then he gets the ultimate wall candy and you guys get to continue on.

Am I just being a sore loser here? Is this guy being a jerk? Please, share your thoughts.

Honestly I don't know you or the other guy so I can't make a judgement call there. It really would depend on both of your personalities. Maybe this guy is really friendly but just likes winning and you're jealous. Maybe you're right and the guy goes out on weekends dressed in a gillie suit made of competition ribbons and chases children around at playgrounds. Who knows... Maybe if this guy is so good you could have him run some classes for your club to increase the status quo and overall knowledge base.

 

[douglasbarbin]

I added a poll to easily summarize everyone's opinion.