Open the f-ing lanes!!!

[MikeFlynn74]

These same poor folks that drink Jack Daniels, smoke a carton of cigarettes a week and feed the kids at Macdonald's, I bet they drive a damned gas hog to wall mart as well as the welfare office to pick up their check

95% of Walmart shoppers are the above. You can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a pig right.

 

[Evan!]

95% of Walmart shoppers are the above. You can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a pig right.

95%, eh? I'm guessing you don't have any actual data to back this up...

 

[MikeFlynn74]

5 mins of standing in one and I fear it will be hit by a tornado.

Its funny how you defend your corperate masters to save 30c on chinese garbage. Walmart has never risen the standard of living in any community. Why must you insist it does?

 

[VatorMan]

95%, eh? I'm guessing you don't have any actual data to back this up...

Statistics show that 77% of all statistics are made up.

 

[MikeFlynn74]

43% of what Vatorman says came from God himself

 

[Evan!]

Its funny how you defend your corperate masters to save 30c on chinese garbage. Walmart has never risen the standard of living in any community. Why must you insist it does?

I'm not defending my "corporate masters" to "save 30 cents on chinese garbage". I'm defending the ideals of free-market capitalism, and a free society that actually values the freedom to do business as you see fit. I don't have any special love for WalMart, and I in fact do not like the way they bribe and blackmail their way into local communities. But I do feel the need to defend the idea that, in America, people should be free to do business as they see fit, because we're the land of the free. Whether or not it raises the standards of living in communities is not and SHOULD NOT BE a prerequisite for its existence. If I wanted to buy a piece of land with my own money, build a store on that land with my own money, and sell cheap Chinese knick-knacks with my own money, then it's no business of anyone else. Does it raise the standards of living in my community? Of course not. That doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to do it. There are plenty of things that exist that don't raise the standards of living in a community, but since when must something do that in order to be allowed to exist? I just don't follow your logic. My point was that the low prices at WalMart help poor people afford to live. If you want to refute that fact, I'm open to debate.

Personally, I don't shop at WalMart very much, but when I do, it's not "saving 30 cents on chinese junk" it's saving quite a bit on the very same goddamned products that are sold in the grocery store up the street. Again, you're hauling out this obviously erroneous and hyperbolic red herring of "everything in walmart is cheap chinese crap", and again I wholly reject your hyperbole, because it's wrong. I know firsthand that it's wrong.

Saying the same wrong things over and over again does not make them any less wrong.

 

[MikeFlynn74]

Keep giving walmart your buisness. You pay for what you get.

The idea of Democratsy is great too- is it working? Lately I wonder.

 

[EdWort]

I've been in some crappy Wallyworlds and some great ones. I wonder how much farther shopping at Wallworld helps those young people, in their early earning years, stretch their paychecks.

If they treat their employees so bad, why can't the unions get them organized? Perhaps they employees don't want unions, the politics, and the stupid dues that go with them.

If walmart sucked so bad, they wouldn't be the biggest retailer in the world would they?

I don't enjoy shopping there because I don't have any convenient ones where I live on the west side of Austin (not in my back yard). We have a Target though. Same concept but cleaner with higher prices.

Oh, I do enjoy saving bucks on cheap chinese crap.

 

[MikeFlynn74]

why can't the unions get them organized

The instantly fire everyone who even thinks of the word union. Its very actively discouraged.

If walmart sucked so bad, they wouldn't be the biggest retailer in the world would they?

I will give them this- Their founder Sam Walton was a good man. Honest and was not out to destroy all competition. He built a successful empire on honesty. However his kids have turned it into make a penny on anything no matter the cost.

 

[Evan!]

Keep giving walmart your buisness. You pay for what you get.

Quite right, good sir, quite right. In some places, you pay more for what you get, in others, you pay less for what you get. But reading between the lines, I see that your underlying point is that by buying my shredded wheat at WalMart, I'm supporting the most evilest demon company to ever do business and that they are going to take over the world and kill my family and enslave us all.

Hmm, oddly enough, Charlottesville has had a dinky old WalMart for ages and ages, yet there's a vibrant, diverse merchant community here. God, it must be the one exception to the rule.

The idea of Democratsy is great too- is it working? Lately I wonder.

Actually, the idea of unchecked democracy (50.1% of the people forcing their opinions on the rest of the people) is really bad. Always has been. Pure democracy is dangerous, which is why the United States was created as a Constitutional Republic, rather than a pure democracy.

The old saying goes: two wolves and a sheep set out to have dinner. In a pure democracy, they take a vote to see what's for dinner. In a constitutional republic, the wolves don't get to vote on dinner, and the sheep is well-armed.

 

[EdWort]

The instantly fire everyone who even thinks of the word union. Its very actively discouraged.

Works for me. :cross:

 

[olllllo]

Ohio:

Read this. It's speaks to precisely what you are talking about.

This is a great read about Walmarts effect on quality of goods:

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/102/open_snapper.html

This isn't necessarilty true in all cases, but this is the effect lower prices can have on even a major name brand.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I've been in some crappy Wallyworlds and some great ones. I wonder how much farther shopping at Wallworld helps those young people, in their early earning years, stretch their paychecks.

If they treat their employees so bad, why can't the unions get them organized? Perhaps they employees don't want unions, the politics, and the stupid dues that go with them.

If walmart sucked so bad, they wouldn't be the biggest retailer in the world would they?

I don't enjoy shopping there because I don't have any convenient ones where I live on the west side of Austin (not in my back yard). We have a Target though. Same concept but cleaner with higher prices.

Oh, I do enjoy saving bucks on cheap chinese crap.

Walmart closes stores that try to unionize.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/09/news/international/walmart_canada/

Walmart takes secret life insurance policies on the old greeters.
http://consumerist.com/consumer/big-box/walmart-took-secret-life-insurance-policies-out-on-employees-collected-after-their-death-274682.php

Walmart takes your savings out of the employees paychecks.
http://blog.fastcompany.com/archives/2005/08/08/walmart_vs_costco.html

Walmart doesn't pay for overtime worked.
http://consumerist.com/consumer/walmart/walmart-to-pay-33-million-in-back-wages-one-worker-to-get-39000-232152.php

Forrest

 

[Evan!]

Walmart closes stores that try to unionize.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/09/news/international/walmart_canada/

Walmart takes secret life insurance policies on the old greeters.
http://consumerist.com/consumer/big-box/walmart-took-secret-life-insurance-policies-out-on-employees-collected-after-their-death-274682.php

Walmart takes your savings out of the employees paychecks.
http://blog.fastcompany.com/archives/2005/08/08/walmart_vs_costco.html

Walmart doesn't pay for overtime worked.
http://consumerist.com/consumer/walmart/walmart-to-pay-33-million-in-back-wages-one-worker-to-get-39000-232152.php

Forrest

It's their store. They own it. If you owned a store D) and the workers unionized, thus making it much less profitable for you to run the store, and you decided that it would be better for you to close your store than pay wages/benefits above and beyond what you wanted to pay, would you not like to have the freedom to do so? I'm fine with workers unionizing, but they also have to realize that just because they're in a union doesn't mean they have their employer by the gonads.

 

[MikeFlynn74]

Evan

You talk about walmart making things better for the poor yet when the poor want more than 5$ an hour you think its perfectly acceptable to remove their jobs.

WOW

 

[olllllo]

Listen. I know Evan can handle himself, but other people read this.

So knock off ANY personal comments.

 

[EdWort]

Walmart closes stores that try to unionize.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/09/news/international/walmart_canada/

Walmart takes secret life insurance policies on the old greeters.
http://consumerist.com/consumer/big-box/walmart-took-secret-life-insurance-policies-out-on-employees-collected-after-their-death-274682.php

Walmart takes your savings out of the employees paychecks.
http://blog.fastcompany.com/archives/2005/08/08/walmart_vs_costco.html

Walmart doesn't pay for overtime worked.
http://consumerist.com/consumer/walmart/walmart-to-pay-33-million-in-back-wages-one-worker-to-get-39000-232152.php

Forrest

That store was in Quebec, Canada. It was a business decision.

Still for all the bad things folks can come up with about WalMart, they still do the community a service in stretching hard earned bucks.

I'm glad they got socked on the overtime. Any employer should.

For all the folks who complain, there must be at least million times that in folks who shop there to save money.

 

[EdWort]

Evan

You talk about walmart making things better for the poor yet when the poor want more than 5$ an hour you think its perfectly acceptable to remove their jobs.

I'm sure the poor make more than $5 an hour. I used to make lots less than that, but I went to school, then college (on my own dime) and my pay increased as my marketable skills did.

Why should an employer be forced to pay a "living wage" for entry level workers? Ever notice how jobs are lost as soon as employers are forced to pay higher wages all in the noble cause of a "living wage"?

 

[MikeFlynn74]

increased as my marketable skills did.

Have you ever been to a Walmart? Even the Managers barely know how to read.

I agree its your decision to shop there, its their decision to work there.

Doesnt make it any less evil.

 

[Evan!]

Evan

You are an evil bastard. You talk about walmart making things better for the poor yet when the poor want more than 5$ an hour you think its perfectly acceptable to remove their jobs.

WOW

I'm an evil bastard because I believe that a company should be free to do business as it sees fit, rather than pay some arbitrary wage set by the government? Oh, please

Like I said earlier, I'm not a champion of the poor by any means---I just don't buy this whole "low prices are evil" thing that people keep dragging out. I support individual rights first and foremost; if you own a business, you should have the right to pay whatever you want to your workers. Nobody's forcing you to be there, so why should they force you to pay a certain wage? At the same time, I believe that the same low prices that people bitch and moan about because they put mom and pop out of business also help poor folks.

These two things are entirely consistent, and are certainly not "evil". In your world, unless I support the abrogation of individual rights in order to make sure that poor people are paid a few bucks more, I'm evil. And if I don't support the abrogation of personal rights to save mom and pop shops, even if it means paying more for goods and services, then I'm also evil.

My main concern here is not the welfare of poor folks---it's preserving the rights that make this nation great. The reason I mention low prices helping out poor folks is because I believe that it's immoral to FORCE a company to sell their products for a higher price. It hurts the company and it hurts the consumer.

If you think this is evil, then I guess you and I just have different ideas of what evil is. Would I like WalMart to voluntarily pay their workers more and give them better benefits? OF COURSE! Would I like the see them forced to pay their workers more and give them better benefits? NO, OF COURSE NOT.

The greatest evil here is not the plight of the poor, it's the loss of the fundamental right to open a business and trade with others in a free market environment.

 

[Evan!]

Have you ever been to a Walmart? Even the Managers barely know how to read.

You sure have a laundry list of these unverifiable hyperbolic claims, Mike. You sound like Michael Moore! If only you were honest enough with yourself to actually look up all these silly claims you keep making...

I agree its your decision to shop there, its their decision to work there.

Doesnt make it any less evil.

If you think that there's something "evil" about two parties voluntarily entering into a mutual agreement in a free market environment, then I have to say, um, holy sh*t! There are plenty of evil things that companies do, but entering into a voluntary contract with another party is certainly not one of them.

Let's take a hypothetical situation: I'm in my yard, with paint cans sitting around me and a ladder up against the house. A homeless guy walks by and offers to paint my house. I say, "sure, how about $5/hour". The guy says "hey, hot damn, I'll do it! That'll buy me dinner for a week, and I'll increase my skills and possibly open up some more employment opportunities!"

Now, of course, this is less than minimum wage, and we've both just committed an illegal act.

But what about that situation is evil? Am I evil for not paying him more? What if it wasn't worth my while to pay him more? It's MY money, and MY house, after all. I could have said $2/hr, and he might have walked away.

I'll say it again: two parties voluntarily entering into a mutual contract in a free market environment is not evil, and is actually the foundation of our economy. If you think it's that evil, perhaps communist Cuba would serve you better. You'll certainly not find any WalMarts in Cuba! :cross:

 

[EdWort]

I guess we should force all the poor people to shop at Whole Foods and Nieman Marcus. Plus it should be against the law to make homebrew unless you brew it in a Blichmann Boilermaker Kettle (I'll be safe, right Forrest ).

Then again we could nationalize all the stores and make everything equally crappy and equally cheap and force everyone to shop there. Nothing evil about that, right?

 

[McKBrew]

Damn, the battle never ends.

WALMART's really must vary from one area to the next. I've seen clean and well-stocked Walmart's with well dressed people inside and new cars outside. I also know a guy who works part time at one and was making close to $12 an hour, so they must pay better in different areas as well.

I just don't get the anti-walmart animosity. For those of you who refuse to shop there, where exactly do you shop? Just curious, because the only options I've ever seen besides Walmart are just other big box stores. Most "Mom and Pop" stores anymore are specialty stores that carry high end products. Take the bicycle "argument" made earlier in this thread. If I want a cheap bike, I go to Walmart, if I go to a small bike shop, they don't have a Huffy on the rack anywhere, so how is Walmart even competing with them?

 

[EdWort]

That's right. Now if you want some Snapper, you can't get it at WalMart. You have to go the high prices places that specialize in the high quality Snapper. Good Snapper costs more money than Walmart customers are willing to pay, so they settle for something cheaper when they want to do some mowing.

 

[Evan!]

Which is exactly what happens around here. As I said before, we have a thriving, vibrant, diverse merchant community here, despite the fact that we have WalMart, Lowes, Sam's Club, Target, etc. There are tons of small shops in town that, rather tha try to compete directly with WalMart, have turned to specialized goods----local, organic, handmade, one-of-a-kind, etc. WalMart/Target hasn't destroyed anything here, it's just changed the dynamic and actually given us more choices. But if I'm driving by WalMart and I need some cheap mouthwash and a watch battery, I'll stop in. Unless it's a weekend. I don't go near the place on the weekends...it's worse than a NASCAR race.

McK, the animosity towards WalMart stems from what I see as an elitist, "we know better than you" attitude, and it kind of disgusts me.

 

[EdWort]

Nothing beats shopping at a Walmart on a Sundy morning in Orem, UT. Nice & quiet, and folks everywhere to help you.

 

[VatorMan]

That's right. Now if you want some Snapper, you can't get it at WalMart. You have to go the high prices places that specialize in the high quality Snapper. Good Snapper costs more money than Walmart customers are willing to pay, so they settle for something cheaper when they want to do some mowing.

Best Snapper I've ever had was in the Philippines. Young and firm. Nothing worse than old sloppy smelly Wal Mart Snapper.

 

[Bytor1100]

Nothing beats shopping at a Walmart on a Sundy morning in Orem, UT. Nice & quiet, and folks everywhere to help you.

Hey, I'm from Orem!

 

[EdWort]

Hey, I'm from Orem!

Cool. And if you shop there on Sunday morning, you will find the place nice & quiet too.

When SWMBO & I were there last month, we managed to get two Wii Consoles at Best Buy for normal price. No line, no shoving, no fuss.

Shopping in Orem, UT on Sunday mornings is fantastic. You have the whole store to yourself (and other infidels of course)

 

[Bytor1100]

Cool. And if you shop there on Sunday morning, you will find the place nice & quiet too.

When SWMBO & I were there last month, we managed to get two Wii Consoles at Best Buy for normal price. No line, no shoving, no fuss.

Shopping in Orem, UT on Sunday mornings is fantastic. You have the whole store to yourself (and other infidels of course)

Yup that's Orem, good time to drive, absolutely no traffic, just try not to hit any mormons walking to church.