Open/ Spontaneous Fermentation in the Basement

[CatsCradle]

Hi Everyone. Im fairly new to brewing and fermenting. I accidentally left a half opened gallon of motts apple juice in the basement and have discovered that it is now fermenting. I transferred it to a 1 gallon carboy and left the top off to see what will happen. My question is twofold. First is the basement a good area for spontaneous fermentation? or will only bacteria rather than wild yeast populate the juice. And second is spontaneous fermentation in the basement dangerous i.e is this dangerous for consumption ? Forgive my naivity but couldnt harmful bacteria/ mold make one quite sick?

 

[monkeymath]

How long did it take for fermentation to start?

Before you taste anything
- how does it look? If there's mold, don't drink it!
- how does it smell? A revolting smell could be an indication you don't want to dink it.
- is it at least slightly alcoholic? Enough alcohol (>2%, I think) produced in a timely manner can act as a safeguard (-> take a gravity measurement).
- Lower pH can similarly act as a safeguard, so if possible, measure the pH.

Either way, you probably don't want to drink too much of it. If the aroma is pleasant, you can use some of the liquid to make a starter (where the yeasts will get a headstart).

 

[Funky Frank]

If you ferment a lot of stuff (beer, wine, cider, mead) in your basement, it is fairly likely that you have inoculated that area with good yeast over the years.

 

[Birrofilo]

No fermentation is dangerous for consumption in small doses, you can always taste and evaluate. If the perfume is good, drink "moderately", because you never know. If the aroma is not good and/or the flavour is not good, give it to the carnations.

A pellicle on top of the brewage is not a sign of a bad mold, it's a SCOBY and you should taste in any case IMHO.

 

[eldernut]

If it isn't drinkable you will at the very least have a reasonable cleaning solution for removing lime scale from your shower. Never throw vinegar away, it's useful.

 

[pdhirsch]

Just noticed this thread -- I know it's old but in case this is of interest to anyone...

Once in a while, I like to ferment a batch of apple juice in my basement using whatever yeast drops out of the air. My usual process is to pour 1/2 gallon of grocery store apple juice into a big, clean pickle jar which holds the half gallon and has a wide mouth. I leave it sitting on a table uncovered for a week or so, or until I see spots of foam on the surface (which usually happens before the week is up). Then I put the lid on the pickle jar, but I leave it very loose so CO2 can escape.

I have a batch going right now, which I started about 3 weeks ago. O.G. was 1.043, and I just measured the S.G. today and it's exactly 1.000. Basement ambient temperature is in the low 60's. Based on past experience, I expect the S.G. to drop another few points before it's done, yielding something close to 6% ABV. At that point I'll siphon it off to a clean 1/2 gallon growler, and depending on how it tastes, I may start a new batch by just pouring a fresh 1/2 gallon of apple juice into the pickle jar, without cleaning the jar, so I'll still have a layer of yeast in the bottom to jump-start the next batch.

This is about as basic as brewing can get. I brew beer and mead and cyser using standard techniques, but I kind of like do this from time to time because it's probably similar to the way that our ancestors discovered the magic in the first place. For the record, the flavor has varied from bland to very sharp, and one or two batches have been downright delicious. I've never gotten sick, and it's always drinkable -- I've never poured a batch down the drain

 

[suprchunk]

What is your guys' basement like that you can do this? I have zero windows down in mine, with zero sources of food for yeast/beneficial bacteria. I'd be afraid all the crap would produce more crap.

If good bugs cannot get in there, how are you expecting to catch them? I mean all my sewage pipes and HVAC runs in mine, maybe you have an orchard outside a window near your basement? Regardless, all the bad stuff falls down, Cantillon and others have their attics where you would expect them; at the top, with open windows, near the gentle night breeze.

You don't need our approval to try it, but there is a reason there aren't a lot of basement beers being sold.

 

[Sammy86]

have zero windows down in mine, with zero sources of food for yeast/beneficial bacteria.

Not trying to derail the thread here but don't all basements need to have at least 1 egress window?

 

[pdhirsch]

Nothing special about my basement as far as I know -- just a typical suburban unfinished basement. The furnace is down there, and the washer and dryer. There's a big workbench that I use for brewing, and an open area with a thick indoor / outdoor carpet that I use for stretching and other calisthenics. Exposed furnace ducts and plumbing / gas pipes, but no sewage. Four ventilation windows which are almost always closed. I run a dehumidifier down there in the summer -- there was mold on the walls when I moved in 12 years ago, but that's gone away since I started running the dehumidifier. All in all, it's not a palace, but not an unsanitary dump either.

 

[suprchunk]

Not trying to derail the thread here but don't all basements need to have at least 1 egress window?

I guess if they were built before the last great war they don't.

 

[suprchunk]

Nothing special about my basement as far as I know -- just a typical suburban unfinished basement. The furnace is down there, and the washer and dryer. There's a big workbench that I use for brewing, and an open area with a thick indoor / outdoor carpet that I use for stretching and other calisthenics. Exposed furnace ducts and plumbing / gas pipes, but no sewage. Four ventilation windows which are almost always closed. I run a dehumidifier down there in the summer -- there was mold on the walls when I moved in 12 years ago, but that's gone away since I started running the dehumidifier. All in all, it's not a palace, but not an unsanitary dump either.

Good luck. You'll probably be fine. Nothing in beer will kill you, but you must ensure you are actually making beer first.

I know all the dust in my house ends up down there. No windows, well I have a glass tile window that is too small to exit or enter from and you can't open it anyways, so no breeze. I also sweat and breathe heavy down there while I exercise, so there is that crap.

If I had windows in my basement I might try it. But I'm not trying to introduce more bugs into my almost 100 year old wood, mixed with paint, probably lead, and who knows what else? But there are the occasional spider web I see that reminds me of Cantillon, so there's also that battle in my head to fight.

 

[pdhirsch]

For the record, it never dropped below 1.000, so last weekend I racked it to a growler and I've started drinking it. It tastes OK -- like a thinnish hard cider -- decent and drinkable, but not great. Probably that's the best you can expect from a $1.98 jug of store-brand apple juice, wild yeast, and only six days of aging.

I poured a fresh half-gallon of juice into the fermenting jar after racking the first batch into the growler. Since then it's gone from S.G. 1.046 down to 1.010. So whatever yeast fell into the jar, it seems like good stuff. I do brew beer and mead in that area of the basement, so maybe my airborne yeast population includes some escapee commercial yeast? Not sure exactly how that could happen (any ideas?) but this apple juice is fermenting very quickly for something that was inoculated with random feral yeast.

I'd love to see what the yeast could do with good apple cider rather than plain apple juice. When the current batch is done, I plan to wash the yeast and refrigerate it. Then next fall, when I can get cider again, I'll try to re-constitute it and feed it some fresh local apple cider.

 

[suprchunk]

You'll get critters that enjoy that specific type of sugar if you keep at it. I start with the sugars for the type of critters I want to catch. Granted sucrose is in beer, but I'm after bugs that are known to eat more complex sugars, like maltose and maltotriose, as well as glucose and dextrose.

If you want a bug that enjoys simple sugars, put out simple sugars. If you want a bug that enjoys apple sugar, put out apple sugar. If you want a bug that produces beer, put out the precursor to beer.

Having said that: I have caught bugs on all types of solid fruit and innoculated my wort with them. And they have produced drinkable products, but they were simple and not complex at all. Much like you have seen. Since my earlier experiments with simpler sugars, I've started doing what breweries do (wow! maybe I should have started out that way?) and put out the specific wort I want to change.

Good luck, it is fun to hunt in this fashion and you never seem to get the same thing twice. Have fun!

 

[mac_1103]

I do brew beer and mead in that area of the basement, so maybe my airborne yeast population includes some escapee commercial yeast? Not sure exactly how that could happen (any ideas?)

In the gas that bubbles out of your airlock.

 

[mashpaddled]

What is your guys' basement like that you can do this? I have zero windows down in mine, with zero sources of food for yeast/beneficial bacteria. I'd be afraid all the crap would produce more crap.

If good bugs cannot get in there, how are you expecting to catch them? I mean all my sewage pipes and HVAC runs in mine, maybe you have an orchard outside a window near your basement? Regardless, all the bad stuff falls down, Cantillon and others have their attics where you would expect them; at the top, with open windows, near the gentle night breeze.

You don't need our approval to try it, but there is a reason there aren't a lot of basement beers being sold.

Yeast and bacteria are everywhere.

 

[suprchunk]

Yeast and bacteria are everywhere.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[pdhirsch]

Good luck, it is fun to hunt in this fashion and you never seem to get the same thing twice. Have fun!

Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't brew 5 gallons using feral basement yeast, but as you say, you never know what you'll get when you put half a gallon of juice or cider out and just wait for something to fall into it. It's kind of dorky, but it makes me feel connected to our distant ancestors who invented the art of brewing by doing nothing more than this.

And it serves as a reminder that any complexity involved in more modern methods is something that we bring in by choice, not something that's absolutely necessary for the process to work.