Once you go all-grain, do you ever go back?

[weirdboy]

I see it as another personal choice/preference... I like knowing exactly what's going into my brew, not having to guess at what else is in the extract (for malts)... I also like tweaking recipes to be more of what I want, not what someone else has decided is a good brew. While kits can produce some really good brew, I can't see myself going back to them. At least not with any regularity.

Extract != kit

 

[j1laskey]

To convert starches to fermentable sugars, temp and time are critical. So I ask, is it is easier to maintain temps by closing your cooler lid and setting the timer, or to closely monitor you conversion process on the stove, while increasing and decreasing the temp so you constantly maintain the temp you want? I think I have the most control of what is happening to my beer at the most "scientific" point of the brew session when I control conversion on the stove....IMO.

 

[millsware]

I've been doing all-grain for a while, but recently jumped on the AHS 20$ kit sale and chose extract. It was nice to be able to brew 15 gallons in less than the time that a 5 gallon batch normally takes. It was also nice to not have to worry about efficiency, stuck sparges, etc.

Although I do love the smell of the mash.

 

[nigel31]

Hey, that's okay. Whichever way works better for you is the way to go. After I've preheated my cooler with some very hot water for a bit while crushing my grains, I've noticed that after an hour of a mash, the temp's barely moved if at all. That's why coolers are popular: locking in temps, and taking the guesswork and fidgeting out of the process.

 

[724b]

I periodically do an extract beer, but rarely because I enjoy the all grain process.

 

[TTB-J]

I'm not an AG brewer for one simple reason: partial mash batches take less time to brew and clean. But I have to pipe in because I disagree with the OP's implication that there is some sort of unavoidable off flavor with all extract brews. That is simply not true. I have made batches that didn't taste good, but it had nothing to do with the fact that I used extract, and everything to do with the fact that I had a bad process (e.g. not pitching enough yeast, bad temperature control, etc.).

 

[nigel31]

I'd simply stated that I, personally, found a signature flavor. Didn't mean to imply that all extract brews had 'em. No offense meant there. For me, AG eliminates whatever was there that I didn't dig; not that it's "better" or anything like that. Can't explain why, really. Zero wrong with extract brews, and I wasn't looking to "blame my tools."

 

[HiGravShawn]

I did about three extracts before going to all grain and then did 15+ batches AG. Lately I don't have a lot of free time and a recent competition had some really good extract winners so to get in more brewing I brewed my last 2-3 early Sat morning as extracts. They've all been as good as the AG versions (if maybe a little more body) and took 3.5 hours vs 5-7 hours. I still have my AG equip and plan to use it, but barring certain special brews, cost is the only really downside to extract and honestly my time is worth more than the difference there anyway.

Edit: Also while every extract I've made was good if not great I had to work hard to condition my water and watch temp to avoid a certain astringency to my AG brews which made some barely passable so you do what works.

 

[jafo28]

Been doing all grain since October 2010, and have done one extract since. It was my first lager and with work I wasn't going to have time to do an all grain batch. I also wanted to concentrate on fermentation temp of this batch. I just kegged it a week ago and the sample I had was awesome. I believe fermentation temp control is critical and newer brewers often overlook this. I've always been particularly anal about my temps, I first built a ferm chamber and have since moved up to a chest freezer with a temp controller. Beers have really improved, with proper temp control.

 

[curlyfat]

I started AG in 2005 and fell in love with going through the entire process from grain-to-glass.

Last summer I sent SWMBO to the LHBS for wheat malt, and she came back with wheat DME. So, I figured, why not? I brewed a honey-hefe-weizen that came in 2nd at the local competition. It was quick easy and fun.

So, yesterday I had some kits I'd bought from AHS for $20 (two amber kits to make 10g) that I brewed while mashing another brew. It was awesome to throw down two batches and add very little time to my brew-day. I think I'll be going back and forth more often.

Oh, and I did associate all-grain with better beer for awhile. Looking back, though, I realize I added temp control, starters, etc. at the same time, so there you go.

 

[passedpawn]

I'll never brew another extract. I just like the AG process too much to not do it. If I don't have time to do an AG, I'd just buy beer I guess (I've always made the time tho!)

... and ...

Please, please, can we not turn this into yet another extract vs. AG (or why they are equal) thread. Aren't we all a little bored of those?

 

[drkaeppel]

My AG batches have been very good so far but my extract brews weren't necessarily any worse. I like having the added control with AG and lower cost. More than anything I just wanted more of a challenge since AG is a bit more involved than extract brews. I just have more fun with it.

As others have said, I will most likely do an occasional extract brew if I am pressed for time or if my pipeline gets too low.

 

[iaefebs]

I can't say I never will go back to extract. I was just never there long enough to really learn the process. It's been over 5 years since I made a extract. I'm much more comfortable with AG. However, I've been thinking about learning the process so I know what the extract guy's are talking about.

 

[JohnTheBrewist]

I haven't made an extract batch since my first one 20 years ago. Don't know why really, it just hasn't occurred to me to do that. I initially got into brewing to save money while getting to drink good beer, so part of it is I just can't see paying kit costs.

 

[jeffjm]

I did my first extract brew in about ten years a couple of months ago. I wanted to do a couple of side-by-side one-gallon batches with different hopping schedules as an experiment, and extract made that very easy. No way was I going to devote the time two AG batches would have taken for only two gallons. If it weren't for the small-batch thing, I wouldn't have wanted to give up the control you get with AG.

I've drunk a couple of those beers now, and I was very pleasantly surprised by how well they turned out. After that experience, and listening to Jamil's show on kit beers a while ago, I'm tempted to find an interesting kit and see how it turns out. Sure, it's more money, but it's also half the time, too.

 

[Burgs]

I actually thought that I would go back and forth and do extract batches every now and then - but I haven't thought about it seriously since switching over.

 

[SoonerDoc]

Please, please, can we not turn this into yet another extract vs. AG (or why they are equal) thread. Aren't we all a little bored of those?

But do you brew it in an aluminum or stainless steel pot?

 

[bruin_ale]

never gone back.. 1 extract batch then 1 partial mash and countless all-grain batches since.

 

[Golddiggie]

But do you brew it in an aluminum or stainless steel pot?

Oh SNAP!! You've gone and one it now Hoss...

Lets see, I'm a former BIAB brewer, who used SS pots initially, but then went to an aluminum pot, which I later converted into a kettle, and also moved over to using a cooler converted into a mash tun... What does that make me? Besides a home brewer that is...

 

[rjwhite41]

A couple of weeks ago I would have said no I would never go back. But last week I brewed my first extract batch in 13 years. Of course, the batch was really just made to try and get a yeast cake for another beer and I had to do it after work on a Friday night and I had another brew coming up on Sunday. But all that being said, yes I did in fact go back to extract at least once (don't see it happening again anytime soon) since switching to all grain.

 

[DubBrew]

I've been brewing for about 18 months, all grain for a year and since I've changed to all grain I've done one extract. I did it because I wanted to have a shorter brew day and I was able to new after work on a week night. It was much easier, quicker, and relaxing. I enjoyed it but will stick mostly with all grain because I enjoy the process more. I'm sure I'll do the occasional extract batch every now and again.

 

[Shooter]

I have two kids and plenty of other things going on. So, I do whatever I've got time for.

 

[duckmanco]

i'd love to get my hands on some cheap dme for a few quick, easy batches i could whip up when i don't have 5 hrs to brew. It's only the high price of extract thats stopping me, and the fact that i have around 250# of various grains in stock.

This is largely why I am an extract brewer still, that and I mainly brew IPA's, which tend to be comprised of simple malt bills. My favorite IPA malt bill? My LHBS's bulk light LME and gasp.... corn sugar... not the first steeping grain in that bill, and it ferments out so crisp and dry the hops explode through. But that approach works for me because I like my IPA's super dry and crisp.

Back to the point, what is your time worth? I hear AG brewers say its half the cost of extract brewing, but it seems to be twice or more the time spent for that savings. I'm not knocking it whatsoever, but for me, in my situation, my time on my days off needs to be spent first and foremost BREWING, but also other stuff I can't not do, so 2 hours or so for extract batches works for me. One day I'll cross over, but I'm good right now.

 

[Golddiggie]

IMO, going all grain, when done smart, only adds your mash time to the length of the batch time. So if you mash for an hour, you're only looking at that much more time spent brewing.

Also, not sure where you're getting the cost difference from, but I can typically brew a 5 gallon batch for 1/3-1/4 the cost of going with extracts. Of course, I'm also washing/harvesting my yeast, but I'm just talking about the other ingredients here. My extract batches were in the area of $45-$55 per kit, PLUS more to go with liquid yeast. So, in the area of $50-$60 a batch for lower OG/ABV brews than I can make for $10-$15 via all grain...

It really is more of a personal preference though. As others have stated, you can make great, or crappy, batches using either set of ingredients/processes. It's more up to the brewer making the batch. But, I have noticed that I'm really liking the flavors I get from all grain batches. I'm not long from being able to drink batches where I crushed the grains the same day (within an hour of mashing) as I brewed them.

Personally, I've always enjoyed cooking from scratch. I see all grain brewing as just an extension of that mind set. I also don't punch a clock when I'm brewing, or figure out how much my time is costing me when brewing. If you start going that, you start taking the fun out of it. It would be like talking with a hunter that goes out and shoots his own game, cleans it, butchers it, and then cooks it. Are you going to try and tell him that he should have just gone to the corner store and picked up a slab of beef instead?? I wouldn't.

 

[weirdboy]

IMO, going all grain, when done smart, only adds your mash time to the length of the batch time. So if you mash for an hour, you're only looking at that much more time spent brewing.

I am pretty sure there is some time involved sparging usually. Even if you are doing BIAB you still need to drain some of that wort from the grain bag.

 

[duckmanco]

Personally, I've always enjoyed cooking from scratch. I see all grain brewing as just an extension of that mind set. I also don't punch a clock when I'm brewing, or figure out how much my time is costing me when brewing. If you start going that, you start taking the fun out of it. It would be like talking with a hunter that goes out and shoots his own game, cleans it, butchers it, and then cooks it. Are you going to try and tell him that he should have just gone to the corner store and picked up a slab of beef instead?? I wouldn't.

Nah, I wouldn't either, thats missing the mark. I don't punch a clock either and I don't expect anyone else to equate time with money during a hobby, it was just a quick and dirty way to explain why I think extract can have a benefit. I however, am in a position to where the benefit of brewing quickly is worth the extra cost right now. When my free time changes (i.e. increases) then I'm sure I'll venture into AG. But for right now, I'm happy taking it slow and nailing down my process.

 

[djsethall]

I am pretty sure there is some time involved sparging usually. Even if you are doing BIAB you still need to drain some of that wort from the grain bag.

and waiting for frickin water to get hot. soon to be fixed:rockin:

 

[Golddiggie]

I am pretty sure there is some time involved sparging usually. Even if you are doing BIAB you still need to drain some of that wort from the grain bag.

Typically about the same amount of time as you would spend steeping grains... Also, if you're brewing all grain with something that heats water faster than a typical stove (like a propane burner) that more than evens the field. :rockin: With the propane burner, you can typically get a full batch boil (6-7.5 gallons for a 5 gallon batch) up to a boil in 15-20 minutes or less. I could never get more than 4 gallons of water to a boil, on my stove, in less than 30-45 minutes... Full batch boils easily took an hour. So if you want to do full boils, without a high output burner (or propane burner) you'll probably be spending the same amount of time as I would brewing all grain, if not more...

YMMV

BTW, I get my sparge water up to temp in ~10 minutes. I start it when I have 10-15 minutes left in the mash, and then it's more than ready... I'm typically sparging with 2.5-4 gallons of water, depending on the brew/batch...

I do think that knowing your hardware/gear is very important when it comes to any method of brewing. Don't use the first time you've changed a part of your process, or some key equipment to judge how it will impact the amount of time to brew a batch. Give it at least a couple of batches. Also realize how other conditions will impact your brew day. Such as brewing outside in the winter, spring, summer, and fall all will impact how long it takes to brew a batch.

 

[statseeker]

I think the next time I brew a wit that requires a ton of wheat flake or puffed rice or something like that I'll sub in rice or wheat DME to increase the gravity while being able to just mash the grain. Help with volume of grain and sparge process. No need to step mash. I'd rather save a little time and hassle in the mash process than go one way or the other. Maybe using extract where you can make your process more efficient will help make the brew day smoother. I'm all down with that.

 

[HiGravShawn]

I think if I had a more robust system I would probably not fall back on extract so much, but I still have to pull out tons of packed away equipment and there's lots of moving things around. It usually adds (time of the mash - whatever time I would steep) + sparge + lautering + cleaning all the mash equipment. It is usually at least 2hrs extra. I am making plans for a nice brew stand now though and I doubt I'll extract very much after that.

As for cost, talking about kits is not a good comparison. Kits can be somewhat expensive, but we're just talking about replacing grain with DME here. To replace grain with extract at the prices I pay is...

1# DME @ $3.10 = $3.10 which replaces roughly 2# pale @ $0.99 = $1.98

So you are adding $1.12 per .07 gravity points or maybe $8 for a 6 gallon brew. When I go to happy hour I spend at least twice that!