Omega OYL-605 Lacto Blend Experiences

[lshaner]

thank you!

i prepared a 1.75L starter last night. are there any dangers in overpitching lacto as there are in overpitching sacc?

We haven't done a whole lot of experimentation with pitching rates at this point. You're not overpitching with a 1.75L starter though so no worries.

 

[dantheman13]

For whatever it is worth, over on MTF the Omega Lacto blend has pretty much been declared the best commercial Lacto blend you can get. It produces higher acidity in a shorter amount of time with some people saying it has a "more complex" sour profile than other strains (perhaps due to the blend). The amount of positive feedback versus the amount of negative feedback (of which I think I have maybe only seen once) is out-standing.

 

[mbbransc]

And the Omega blend is easy to work with. Uses plantarum lacto which sours well around 90* and continues through room temp. Kegging a Berliner today that used the blend; 3.2 pH in 40 hrs (kettle souring). Used 88% lactic to get it to 4.5 before pitching.

 

[SpeedYellow]

The Omega lacto is a bit pricey - my LHBS sells it for $11 (!). A good alternative is the Good Belly priobiotic juice, which also contains L. Plantarum. Folks (me included) have had good luck with the Goodbelly and it's pretty cheap - I paid $4.50 at my local organic foods store for a quart, so there's even plenty leftover for drinking.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

I know this thread is dead but I wanted to give a BIG thumbs up to omega. I won't get into why my mash pH was 5.8 (something I'm researching further) but dropped to 3.5 in 14 hrs. Pitched lacto blend (1 L starter, approx 36 hrs old) at 93 degrees and blanketed with CO2 after boiling for 15 minutes to ensure the only yeast in the wort was from omega.

Now onto a 90 minute boil to drive off any DMS due to using pilsner.

Thanks again for a great product. Definitely will use again for a mango habanero cuban gose...

 

[MagicMatt]

I know this thread is dead but I wanted to give a BIG thumbs up to omega. I won't get into why my mash pH was 5.8 (something I'm researching further) but dropped to 3.5 in 14 hrs. Pitched lacto blend (1 L starter, approx 36 hrs old) at 93 degrees and blanketed with CO2 after boiling for 15 minutes to ensure the only yeast in the wort was from omega.

Now onto a 90 minute boil to drive off any DMS due to using pilsner.

Thanks again for a great product. Definitely will use again for a mango habanero cuban gose...

What did your starter look like? I pitched my OYL-605 into 1L of 1.040 wort (105g DME) this morning, about 14 hours ago, and I'm not seeing any signs of lacto presence.

I do have a thin layer of some cloudy white substance settling to the bottom. I gave it a gentle swirl for a couple of seconds to re-suspend a bit of it (shouldn't lacto activity be on the surface?), but I'm worried the pack of lacto could be bad. Is this possible?

I'm brewing tomorrow so I'm trying to figure out if I need to run to the LHBS and get something else in the morning.

 

[Calaeb]

What did your starter look like? I pitched my OYL-605 into 1L of 1.040 wort (105g DME) this morning, about 14 hours ago, and I'm not seeing any signs of lacto presence.

I do have a thin layer of some cloudy white substance settling to the bottom. I gave it a gentle swirl for a couple of seconds to re-suspend a bit of it (shouldn't lacto activity be on the surface?), but I'm worried the pack of lacto could be bad. Is this possible?

I'm brewing tomorrow so I'm trying to figure out if I need to run to the LHBS and get something else in the morning.

I had the same experience with mine. Granted I accidentally stuck it in the freezer part of my mini fridge, I tried to step it up 3 times and never saw any kind of growth or anything (didn't know what to expect) So I gave up, and there it sat in my garage for a week, ended up blowing out the milk jug it was in and spilling wort everywhere. It did smell nice at the point but was too little too late, I abandoned my berliner idea.

 

[crane]

What did your starter look like? I pitched my OYL-605 into 1L of 1.040 wort (105g DME) this morning, about 14 hours ago, and I'm not seeing any signs of lacto presence.

I do have a thin layer of some cloudy white substance settling to the bottom. I gave it a gentle swirl for a couple of seconds to re-suspend a bit of it (shouldn't lacto activity be on the surface?), but I'm worried the pack of lacto could be bad. Is this possible?

I'm brewing tomorrow so I'm trying to figure out if I need to run to the LHBS and get something else in the morning.

When I did a starter with this I never saw any activity, just a fine white layer settled out at the bottom of the flask. I pitched the entire 1L starter into 6 gallons of wort and it dropped to 3.2 after 3 days.

From what I understand lacto is much smaller than yeast and doesn't floculate well. Additionally it doesn't give off CO2 (or very little) so you shouldn't expect to see much activity or "presence" of lacto in a starter.

I think your starter is fine and you should go ahead and pitch it.

 

[MagicMatt]

Thanks for the reassurance guys. I'll report back with results. Brewing is commencing shortly.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Your starter really won't look like anything is going on but the lacto is doing its thing. If its a fresh pack a day or two should be good but if its older or your using part of a previous batch then give it 3-4.

 

[TMannion87]

Turbidity in your starter and your wort is a sign that the lacto is doing its thing, but for the most part you shouldn't/won't see much activity.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

I brewed the mango cherry Cuban gose and did the starter again.. I didn't see any activity with either, pitched the whole thing and in 14 hrs down to 3.3 again. So I'm with you as I was a skeptic with both brews and with each I pitched the whole starter and all was well. Just believe

What did your starter look like? I pitched my OYL-605 into 1L of 1.040 wort (105g DME) this morning, about 14 hours ago, and I'm not seeing any signs of lacto presence.

I do have a thin layer of some cloudy white substance settling to the bottom. I gave it a gentle swirl for a couple of seconds to re-suspend a bit of it (shouldn't lacto activity be on the surface?), but I'm worried the pack of lacto could be bad. Is this possible?

I'm brewing tomorrow so I'm trying to figure out if I need to run to the LHBS and get something else in the morning.

 

[MagicMatt]

What should the starter smell like? Just took a whiff and it is almost unpleasant. I wouldn't say it's a vomit like smell, but really funky. Like old shoes or garbage or something.

I'm now wondering if I should toss it and use something else (Good Belly, etc)? I'd hate to mess up the 5 gallons of beer - this is for a festival in 5 weeks!

I've tried searching about what a lacto starter should smell like, but couldn't find anything about this specific blend except one person who said it smelled pretty rotten for a couple of days but then smelled really lemony. This definitely isn't lemony, but it's only been 34 hours.

I just got done brewing about an hour ago and the wort is in a carboy at 94°F right now in the garage. It's already been pre-soured with lactic acid to 4.3 pH. I feel like I need to pitch something in it tonight - either the starter or something else.

What do y'all think?

 

[Morrey]

What should the starter smell like? Just took a whiff and it is almost unpleasant. I wouldn't say it's a vomit like smell, but really funky. Like old shoes or garbage or something.

I'm now wondering if I should toss it and use something else (Good Belly, etc)? I'd hate to mess up the 5 gallons of beer - this is for a festival in 5 weeks!

I've tried searching about what a lacto starter should smell like, but couldn't find anything about this specific blend except one person who said it smelled pretty rotten for a couple of days but then smelled really lemony. This definitely isn't lemony, but it's only been 34 hours.

I just got done brewing about an hour ago and the wort is in a carboy at 94°F right now in the garage. It's already been pre-soured with lactic acid to 4.3 pH. I feel like I need to pitch something in it tonight - either the starter or something else.

What do y'all think?

Matt, take a look at how the lacto separates into three layers with the most dense, white layer at the bottom. The smell varies but I noted my last batch smelled a bit like tennis shoes. For the lack of a better term it smells funky or a bit stale and sour.

 

[MagicMatt]

OK I pitched it! On taking a second (bigger and deeper) sniff, there is some fruity sourness to it on the back end. We'll see how she goes!

Thanks!

 

[Morrey]

Omega 605 has been extremely consistent for me, however I plan to try Swanson L Plantarum caps as an alternative due to the comparative low cost. Of all the commercial lacto blends on the market geared toward kettle souring, 605 is a top pick.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

I always think they smell like an Arnold Palmer aka half lemonade/half tea. The acidity should be easily noticeable but clean and pleasant. If you got what you got(funky) then too much air is getting into the process. Did you use a stir bar? Was the starter sealed or just foil on top? How much headspace are you leaving in your fermenter?

 

[MagicMatt]

Yeah I could see the Arnold Palmer maybe.....with some notes of funk. I only have one Erlenmeyer flask and was using that for the sacch yeast for this beer, so I used a growler that never gets used (it's on a shelf for display). So there was a decent amount of headspace in there, but I didn't shake (no stir bar/plate) and used sanitized foil tightly capped around the mouth. It was sitting on top of my fridge at about 77°F and hadn't opened it until today.

As for headspace in the fermenter, there's not much. The wort is maybe 2" from the bottom of the neck. I also purged the headspace with CO2 for about 20 seconds before I capped it with the airlock.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

I bet the foil is the culprit or the main one. Next time use an airlock on the starter and try to cut down on headspace.
If you have enough lacto built up that amount of headspace should be ok but it's right on the border. The closer to your airlock the better.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

Honestly never smelled it in fact I didn't want to assuming it would be awful. My garage the following morning did smell like a locker room.... honestly I think you will be fine but you presoured... you might want to check that ph in like 8 hrs... I was at 5.4 prior to pitching and like I said got to 3.3 in around 12 to 14 hrs.

What should the starter smell like? Just took a whiff and it is almost unpleasant. I wouldn't say it's a vomit like smell, but really funky. Like old shoes or garbage or something.

I'm now wondering if I should toss it and use something else (Good Belly, etc)? I'd hate to mess up the 5 gallons of beer - this is for a festival in 5 weeks!

I've tried searching about what a lacto starter should smell like, but couldn't find anything about this specific blend except one person who said it smelled pretty rotten for a couple of days but then smelled really lemony. This definitely isn't lemony, but it's only been 34 hours.

I just got done brewing about an hour ago and the wort is in a carboy at 94°F right now in the garage. It's already been pre-soured with lactic acid to 4.3 pH. I feel like I need to pitch something in it tonight - either the starter or something else.

What do y'all think?

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

BTW Matt I certainly don't want to sound like an expert but I sort of felt this lacto blend was pretty much the easiest blend based on what I read almost something you couldn't mess up. I had both starters in a 2 liter erlmeyer and no stirring. The first was foil and the second a sponge like stopper no rhyme or reason for my selections.


As an aside... tasted my mango cherry Cuban gose today. Trnsferred the beer after primary fermentation h over 12 lbs of mango and 6 lbs of cherries... both pretty much fermented out... wonder if I should have considered killing the yeast and back sweetening like a cider.. I knew fermentation would kick off but damn if I thought the fruit would be undetectable. Gonna keep it cold crashed for another day transfer to a keg and add the lime/habanero infused vodka to inject some heat and other flavors/aroma.

Let us know how it goes matt. I think you will be fine. Hopefully your ph doesn't drop too low. Anybody think he should keep a close eye on it?

What should the starter smell like? Just took a whiff and it is almost unpleasant. I wouldn't say it's a vomit like smell, but really funky. Like old shoes or garbage or something.

I'm now wondering if I should toss it and use something else (Good Belly, etc)? I'd hate to mess up the 5 gallons of beer - this is for a festival in 5 weeks!

I've tried searching about what a lacto starter should smell like, but couldn't find anything about this specific blend except one person who said it smelled pretty rotten for a couple of days but then smelled really lemony. This definitely isn't lemony, but it's only been 34 hours.

I just got done brewing about an hour ago and the wort is in a carboy at 94°F right now in the garage. It's already been pre-soured with lactic acid to 4.3 pH. I feel like I need to pitch something in it tonight - either the starter or something else.

What do y'all think?

 

[MagicMatt]

Thanks for the heads up. I was actually hoping it would take 24 hours (or less) to sour to the 3.2-3.3 range so that I could finish today (boil, pitch the yeast, etc). I've also read about how good this blend is and how it's pretty much the best commercial lacto blend out there right now (in terms of ease of use and results).

Since I pitched so late last night (was hoping to pitch around 5pm but didn't until about 9pm) I was just going to let it ride overnight again tonight. But I'll heed your advice and check the pH around 4pm today (19 hours) in case it's ready so I have time to boil, chill, and clean before it gets dark.

 

[MagicMatt]

Actually screw it, I'll go pull a sample right now.

Edit:

Wow, sure enough it's already low enough! Thanks for making me go check! On to the boil now.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

I wouldn't open it. Every time you open it you let air in potentially funking up the batch. When I was tasting daily to determine when to pasteurize I noticed I would get some funk notes creeping in. Not enough to ruin the beer but not something you want either even if its subtle. Now I just leave it be 72 hours and roll with it from there. Ive noticed for myself 24 hours gets the acidity similar to an 1809. 48 hours is closer to lemonade. And 72 hours is sour, not puckering tongue frying sour but possibly still more than some want.

 

[MagicMatt]

I purge with CO2 when I open, so that shouldn't be an issue. I know air still gets in, but I'm not terribly worried about it on such a small level.

I tasted the sample, and it reminds me of powdered lemonade (Country Time, etc). I'm assuming this is because of the sweetness that's still around and that once the yeast takes care of the sugar the sourness will stand out more and seem noticeably more sour. I'm not going for mouth-puckering here for my first attempt, but I do want it to be obviously sour.

Should I wait, or roll with it? Everything I've read says once you're below 3.3 pH to go ahead and boil to stop the souring. I did increase my sacch cell count by about 100 (from 167 billion to 267 billion) since I've read that pH below 3.3 can sometimes inhibit the yeast during fermentation.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

key West it won't push him under 3 if he waits longer will it? I didn't realize letting it go might offer different profiles. I read of all the risks of not putting lacto in the right environment plus opportunistic infections and just figured I would take advantage of the quick souring and get my boil on.

Good call on planning to pitch more.... both of mine actually under attenuated. I was pitching dry but probably should have either hydrated or pitched 1.5 packets.... I got lazy even though I saw some lag in fermentation with the first batch and didn't hit my f.g.

 

[MagicMatt]

Eh I boiled it anyway. I saw here that 3.3 was "very sour".....don't know how trustworthy the info is but seems like it mimics other things I've read:

http://sourbeerblog.com/fast-souring-lactobacillus/

A pH around 3.6 generally equates with a tartness appropriate for styles like Berliner Weisse or Gose. A pH around 3.3 will be strongly sour, on par with many young lambic style beers. Keep in mind that at a pH below 3.4 to 3.5, some strains of Saccharomyces will have difficulty producing a healthy fermentation.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

Wife got goosebumps at 3.3....

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

key West it won't push him under 3 if he waits longer will it? I didn't realize letting it go might offer different profiles. I read of all the risks of not putting lacto in the right environment plus opportunistic infections and just figured I would take advantage of the quick souring and get my boil on.

Good call on planning to pitch more.... both of mine actually under attenuated. I was pitching dry but probably should have either hydrated or pitched 1.5 packets.... I got lazy even though I saw some lag in fermentation with the first batch and didn't hit my f.g.

Im not sure where it bottoms out but I have read that it eventually gets to a point thats not suitable for the lacto anymore. As for pitching Ive been splitting cakes of Nottingham from other batches and pitching about 1/3 a cake. If I do have to use a fresh pitch I try to use 2 packs though Ive had success with 1 it just took longer. The yeast are getting thrown into some harsh conditions so pitching big helps make sure your getting enough troops in there to get the job done.

 

[bannerj]

I pitched my starter just under 120 degrees. I read above to chill to 90. Not much happened in the first 24. I thought below 120 was okay. Is it screwed?