Old Malt Extract

[psymn]

So, my sister-in-law just gave me the remnants of her faild homebrewing hobby. I have no Idea how old this stuff is, but she gave me 3 3lb bags of DME (2light, 1dark), One Stout can of LME, and a a pound of hops.

Obviously I threw out the hops, but what do ya'll think about the malt? The DME is hardened in the bags, probably due to the heat in her garage. I was thining about attempting a dark ale using fresh grains and hops. Any thoughts?

Matt

 

[Jsin]

Go for it. It won't be the best beer you ever make, but it will be almost free...:rockin:

 

[homebrewer_99]

You could take a hammer to the bags. The clumps should break up fairly easily.

Other than that, you could just soak the malt in WARM - NOT HOT water. Hot water would cause crystalization on the surface and require more time to dissolve.

 

[snaproll]

I made a brew one time out of old extract ( the cans were bulging a bit ) and it was horrible, I threw it away . No you couldn't stand to drink it either.
So I'd make sure the cans are not swollen, then I'd presume they would be ok.
I don't know about the bags..

 

[Walker]

I made a brew one time out of old extract ( the cans were bulging a bit ) and it was horrible, I threw it away .

Dude... if the cans were BULGING, they probably had botulism in them! You might have gotten VERY lucky there.

Count your blessings that the only thing that happened was terrible tasting beer!

-walker

 

[snaproll]

Well it was minmal but still yes they weren't what you would call fresh. ( I got what I thought was a good deal on them, at the time I was new to this ).
But I don't see where I was all that lucky, after boiling for some time if it did have anything in it I would have killed it at 212 + for 30 min or so.
It did ferment too but it tasted pretty bad.
I don't use that HBS any more, I was told that the reason the kits were so cheap was that they were old and the yeast wasn't any good any more.
So I wasted good yeast on bad malt go figure.
sometimes you find people that will take advantage of the novice for a meager profit. curses on them

 

[Walker]

But I don't see where I was all that lucky, after boiling for some time if it did have anything in it I would have killed it at 212 + for 30 min or so.

Heat does not kill the botulinum bacteria. Heat can neutralize the toxic spores the organism produces, but the organism lives on and can produce more toxins later.

Actually, even opening a bulging CAN could be enough to get you sick, since the toxic spores would waft into the air right in front of you.

-walker

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

You should have saved the hops and made a lambic!

 

[david_42]

I've made ale from 6 year old cans (no bulges), fresh hops and yeast. Quarts of Chaos!

 

[Blender]

If it was me I wouldn't start my brewing hobby using old ingredients. Get some fresh stuff.

 

[psymn]

Thanks for the info. I v'e been doing this for a while now, but never had any old malt. I'll toss the LME, but i'd like some suggestions on what to do with 6lb light DME and 3lb dark DME. Any ideas of which grains/hops to use?

Matt

 

[bikebryan]

Heat does not kill the botulinum bacteria. Heat can neutralize the toxic spores the organism produces, but the organism lives on and can produce more toxins later.

Actually, even opening a bulging CAN could be enough to get you sick, since the toxic spores would waft into the air right in front of you.

-walker

Well, close.

It's not the botulisim organism that is really toxic. It's the poision it produces as it digests its food. You can kill the organism by boiling (although it is a tough little bugger), but the toxic by-product of it's life cycle remains.

 

[Walker]

Well, close.

It's not the botulisim organism that is really toxic. It's the poision it produces as it digests its food. You can kill the organism by boiling (although it is a tough little bugger), but the toxic by-product of it's life cycle remains.

we are both close.

You were right about the the waste of the bacteria being the source of toxics, not the spores I mentioned.

However, boiling will destroy the toxin, according to the CDC.

Also, the spores I mentioned (but was mistaken about) are not a product of the bacteria, but rather are another form that the bacteria can assume. In this spore form, they are heat resistant and require temperatures ABOVE boiling to kill, according to the CDC.

Here's the center for disease control's info, if you are interested.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:g2e48EhRA4wJ:www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/botulism.PDF+botulism&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

-walker

 

[snaproll]

Guess I was lucky then and I'll remember that in the future.
However I have progressed and I won't be using any spoiled LME again, I use only all grain now. I have also realized ( no brainer really) that you should always use the freshest of ingredients in your brew.

 

[bikebryan]

we are both close.

You were right about the the waste of the bacteria being the source of toxics, not the spores I mentioned.

However, boiling will destroy the toxin, according to the CDC.

Also, the spores I mentioned (but was mistaken about) are not a product of the bacteria, but rather are another form that the bacteria can assume. In this spore form, they are heat resistant and require temperatures ABOVE boiling to kill, according to the CDC.

Here's the center for disease control's info, if you are interested.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:g2e48EhRA4wJ:www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/botulism.PDF+botulism&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

-walker

I did forget that boiling will break down the toxin, but you have to thoroughly boil the toxin-containing material to break it down - I don't know the timelines though.

I did know that you had to heat the spores above boiling to destroy them. Autoclaves use pressurized steam to achieve this. It can also be done at home using canning equipment - pressure cookers, in other words - and you have to hold the pressure for so many minutes or you are just wasting your time.

 

[Greenbeerman]

http://byo.com/stories/item/415-can...centrated-extract-with-its-high-sugar-content

 

[unionrdr]

I used a two year old can of Cooper's OS Lager once. the can wasn't bulging,no weird foamy slime on top-nada. I made a small starter for the yeast. Wound up needing a blow off. With the hops I used,it produced a sessionable beer the same color & much like the flavor of a Salvator Doppelbock. So never say never. * There's a pic of it in my gallery as Summer Ale.