Festbier Oktoberfest (1st place, scored 42)

[seatazzz]

Took 1st place in the 2012 Novembeerfest competition held at Larry's Brewing Supply, Kent Wa. This was my second competition entered (got two 2nd places out of three entries for the first comp), 1st entry for this beer.

Brewed it in early April 2012 and tapped it Mid Sept, bottled 3 12oz bottles after my 2nd Annual Oktoberfest Party. I actually had two versions of this beer, one with Bavarian Lager yeast and the second with the Octoberfest Lager Blend yeast.


Grain Bill (90 min mash @ 152 deg)

5.5 lbs Munich
5.5lbs Pilsner
1lbs, 4 oz. Caramunich
3 oz Hallertaur (2.5%) - Boil 6o min

I would have added the Beersmith file but not sure how to do so.

Trying this out today with a couple of changes, using some two-row and a smidge of crystal 80 to get the color I need. This recipe caught my eye because I bought my first recipe at Larry's back in 2016, and I miss that place like crazy.

 

[Genuine]

I think this is the year that I'm going to brew it so it can lager allllll summer and have it be ready to go one the cool fall weather hits. The last few times I've brewed it, I waited till August or early September...and I remember when I took a pour in February, how insanely smoooooth it was after some time in the keg, cold conditioning, etc. So I'll get this brewed this month so it'll sit till Fall and I'll have it ready to go whenever.

 

[jdubdvdt]

Not even trying to be rude here because I have a Marzen I decided to not enter in competition because I used 3.5% Caramunich and I think it has a residual caramel sweetness in the aroma and the flavor. This recipe posted in this thread is approximately 10% Caramunich. I am sure this beer is quite tasty, but the guidelines state caramel aromas and flavors are inappropriate.

Per 2008 BJCP guidelines

• "Caramel aroma is inappropriate"
• "Noticeable caramel or roasted flavors are inappropriate"

Comparing to current 2021 BJCP guidelines

• "Caramel-sweet, biscuity-dry, or roasted malt aromas are inappropriate"
• "Noticeable sweet caramel, dry biscuit, or roasted are inappropriate"

Am I blowing it out of proportion? Should I be entering my Oktoberfest/Marzen? I did one with Diamond yeast and one with S-23. The S-23 is crystal clear, but has some fruity esters that play with the caramel note, and some residual sweetness although the FG was lower. The Diamond is still slightly hazy at 6-8 weeks in the keg, but mostly clear. Less ester profile from the yeast and still has some caramel sweetness, but it is mild in comparison. They both are really tasty, but I'd almost say more like an American Oktoberfest like Sam Adams with less sweetness.

@jdauria would probably be a huge help here.

 

[jdauria]

@jdauria would probably be a huge help here.

Hey jdub! I do agree that the OP recipe seems to be high in Cara Munich, but he has had great success with the recipe. Granted judges tastebuds may have changed between 2012, when he first won with this recipe and now. I currently have a Marzen on tap that I love, that only uses 2% CaraMunich. It gets most of it's flavor from Vienna, Light Munich and Dark Munich, so it's rich toasty goodness. It's the MeanBrews recipe, and in the video he does talk about how this style has evolved over the years and that the percentage of base malts has increased drastically, while crystal malt usage in the style (well in award winning recipes), has dropped from over 12% in the mid-90's and is trending downward to under 5%. The recipe reflects that, with 97% of it being base malts.

On Brewfather, the Mean Brews recipes all list pedigrees, i.e. comp results from those who have brewed the recipe and reported back results. It's got 9 medals, including 1 gold and has scored a high of 45. Here's hoping it scores that high when I send some out!

As to entering yours, that's your call. Maybe throw the Diamond one in a comp as a Marzen and try International Amber with the one with fruity esters? Heck, maybe even toss it in as a Czech Amber.

 

[jdubdvdt]

Hey jdub! I do agree that the OP recipe seems to be high in Cara Munich, but he has had great success with the recipe. Granted judges tastebuds may have changed between 2012, when he first won with this recipe and now. I currently have a Marzen on tap that I love, that only uses 2% CaraMunich. It gets most of it's flavor from Vienna, Light Munich and Dark Munich, so it's rich toasty goodness. It's the MeanBrews recipe, and in the video he does talk about how this style has evolved over the years and that the percentage of base malts has increased drastically, while crystal malt usage in the style (well in award winning recipes), has dropped from over 12% in the mid-90's and is trending downward to under 5%. The recipe reflects that, with 97% of it being base malts.

On Brewfather, the Mean Brews recipes all list pedigrees, i.e. comp results from those who have brewed the recipe and reported back results. It's got 9 medals, including 1 gold and has scored a high of 45. Here's hoping it scores that high when I send some out!

As to entering yours, that's your call. Maybe throw the Diamond one in a comp as a Marzen and try International Amber with the one with fruity esters? Heck, maybe even toss it in as a Czech Amber.

Thanks for the recap on the MB Marzen.
I have entries due tomorrow, but I will let these two age for another month for the following competition. Gives me time to worry about some other beers.
My recipe actually uses the MeanBrews water profile. Mine is very tasty, but I still fear the Caramunich in mine is high per the BJCP guidelines. I might be slightly blowing it out of proportion or maybe the Barke Munich is too rich. If I made it again I would consider dropping the Caramunich under 2%.

49.1% Barke Munich
25.5% Barke Vienna
21.8% Barke Pilsner
3.6% Caramunich 1

24ibu from Perle and Mittelfrueh (Perle to bitter. Mittelfrueh at 15' for some flavor)
Using a Hochkurz Mash of course.

 

[jdauria]

Looks good! Good luck in the comps! I bottled some of mine the other day, got to get my Altbier bottled up to and then send them out next week to Alabama Brewers Cup and Wortpalooza.

 

[jdubdvdt]

Looks good! Good luck in the comps! I bottled some of mine the other day, got to get my Altbier bottled up to and then send them out next week to Alabama Brewers Cup and Wortpalooza.

Good luck to you as well! Awesome you are entering in lots of locations.

I guess I should be considering sending mine out to other places for getting as much feedback as possible. I have been doing a ton of iterations on my Raspberry Gose. Goal is to go after NHC next year with it. The medals you got from Texas were SWEET.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

maybe the Barke Munich is too rich....

24ibu from Perle and Mittelfrueh (Perle to bitter. Mittelfrueh at 15' for some flavor)

What vintage are the hops? If they're 2022 (terrible) or 2023 (not great), then maybe you're getting less flavour than you expect from the hops, which in turn is screwing the balance of the beer?

 

[jdubdvdt]

What vintage are the hops? If they're 2022 (terrible) or 2023 (not great), then maybe you're getting less flavour than you expect from the hops, which in turn is screwing the balance of the beer?

Both of them are 2023.

It's possible still. I consider myself sensitive to caramel flavor, but an American Oktoberfest typically has 5-10% at a brewery so I would say it's less sweet than those.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Both of them are 2023.

It's possible still. I consider myself sensitive to caramel flavor, but an American Oktoberfest typically has 5-10% at a brewery so I would say it's less sweet than those.

I won't comment on some of the strange ideas that have developed about European beers across the pond...

At least you avoided the 2022's. But on a practical note, it may be worth seeing if you can get some 2024's, or replacing the Mittelfrueh (which is supersensitive to drought etc both for yield and quality) with a more modern variety like Hallertau Tradition which copes better?

 

[jdauria]

Good luck to you as well! Awesome you are entering in lots of locations.

I guess I should be considering sending mine out to other places for getting as much feedback as possible. I have been doing a ton of iterations on my Raspberry Gose. Goal is to go after NHC next year with it. The medals you got from Texas were SWEET.

Thanks! Raspberry Gose sounds so good! Here's a tip for NHC, wait to the last possible moment to register, check the entry numbers by region and enter it in a low entry count region. Seems a lot of people did that this year and had their beers advance.

Yeah those Texas medals from Brew Battle are awesome, was pumped to win a couple. Though the bronze was not for a beer but for their "best beer name" award...with "This beer had a name, but DOGE cut it."