Ok to stir immersion chiller? How about hot wort through the immersion chiller?

[GeorgeH2013]

Initially, I was told that stirring an immersion chiller was a bad idea, as it added oxygen to the wort. Ok fine. Then, I read somewhere that it was ok, as the benefits of getting the wort chilled as quickly as possible outweighed the negative effects of the stirring. Ok fine. I've been doing 5 gal all grain batches, 6 so far, and they all seem to be off a little, in the same way. I have a list of things I'm working on changing: Fermentation temperature control, mash temp control, sanitation, etc. Basically, the whole process.

I'm just curious if there is a hard line on stirring the immersion chiller. I have a 25ft pre-chiller that I keep in a bucket of ice, and 50ft of copper coil that goes in the boil keggle. Unfortunately, about 1/3 of the coil sticks out the top of the boiled wort, so that isn't helping the chilling process.

Last thought, and this might be obvious, but I've been wondering. Why wouldn't I run the hot work through the immersion chiller, and submerge that in a bucket of ice? Wouldn't that be quicker, and waste much less water?

As always, thanks for the help.

-George

 

[str1p3s]

I believe what you are talking about is a counter flow chiller. I use an immersion chiller just because it seems like running wort through a tube would be a PITA to keep clean.

I'm not sure what you mean by stir the immersion chiller. You mean like whirlpool the wort while the chiller is in there? Because that is common. I've read a lot that hot side aeration is either a myth or overblown.

I would say temperature control in both mashing and fermenting is probably your best bet to get the most improvement.

 

[GeorgeH2013]

Hi str1p3s, yea, I grab the top of the chiller, and swirl it around to create a whirlpool. It's a hassle, and it still takes too long to get the temp down to pitching temp (20-30mins). Even then, I only get it to 80F or so, and I give up, and stick it in my ferm chamber, and drop the temp down the final 10 degrees or so. This adds another 20 minutes or so to the process. I'd just like to speed up the process, using the equipment I've got, if possible. But if creating the whirlpool is a bad idea, then I'm going to have to go another route.

 

[chickypad]

I always whirlpool while chilling as it really cuts down the chill time. On my big system the chiller has a built in whirlpool arm, on my little system I stir the wort. I try not to splash around but my take away from everything is not to worry about hot side aeration. It's much easier to stir the wort than the whole chiller though.

 

[GeorgeH2013]

Can you stir the wort without a whirlpool arm? There isn't a lot of room between the side of the keggle, and the chiller.

 

[ncsuwerewolf]

It is commom to stir wort while chilling. An immersion chiller is just a heat exchanger. If you do not move the wort in the kettle you will not be chilling anything. And no need for ice in chilling until after groundwater becomes ineffective. I find it to be chilled to about 110f. Then i pump ice water through the chiller to get it to pitch temp. I run off enough hot water initally to use for all of my clean up. Oxygen is good for wort, bad for beer.

 

[jmitchell3]

yea don't run it through the chiller, just stir with sanitized spoon or swirl with chiller per chickypad. Or, if you happen to use a pump, whirlpool with your outlet hose to get some turbulence going in the kettle.

 

[str1p3s]

I also put the whole pot into ice water in addition to the immersion chiller. I don't stir the whole chiller, but I use a spoon to try to whirlpool the wort. Although there isn't a lot of room like you said, but some movement is better than none.

 

[jjw5015]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EKKOEOE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 + power drill= instant whirlpooling. don't do it above 170F though, they like to melt :smack:

 

[troglodytes]

My process it to put the IC into the boil to sanitize. Then I put my post boil hops in and whirlpool manually without the IC working for about 20-30 minutes. I just put my sanitized paddle (not wood) in the interior area of the ICs coil and stir vigorously, go clean then repeat about every 3-5 minutes as I walk by the kettle. After that time the temp is usually dropped to about 190-180F, that's when I start running the cold water through the IC and stir vigorously to keep the wort moving to maximize contact with the coil. I generally cool from 180F to 65F (with pretty cold groundwater in MA) in 8 to 10 minutes max. This is with a homemade 30ft 3/8" copper IC, so a nice purchased one should take even less time. And I've already got a head start on aerating my wort.

 

[GeorgeH2013]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EKKOEOE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 + power drill= instant whirlpooling. don't do it above 170F though, they like to melt :smack:

That thing has enough material to get 6 gallons moving around, huh?

 

[jjw5015]

Very easily. this is wine, but you get the idea

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9G9zpYfMxA[/ame]

 

[GeorgeH2013]

My process it to put the IC into the boil to sanitize. Then I put my post boil hops in and whirlpool manually without the IC working for about 20-30 minutes. I just put my sanitized paddle (not wood) in the interior area of the ICs coil and stir vigorously, go clean then repeat about every 3-5 minutes as I walk by the kettle. After that time the temp is usually dropped to about 190-180F, that's when I start running the cold water through the IC and stir vigorously to keep the wort moving to maximize contact with the coil. I generally cool from 180F to 65F (with pretty cold groundwater in MA) in 8 to 10 minutes max. This is with a homemade 30ft 3/8" copper IC, so a nice purchased one should take even less time. And I've already got a head start on aerating my wort.

So, you aren't too concerned with the amount of time it takes to go from boil to pitching temperature? Sounds like you let it cool initially pretty slowly, and then are able to ramp it up quickly, once you start the water running through the chiller. There definitely seems to be different takes on this issue.

Be nice to have ground water that cold, but I don't think I'd trade you climates!

 

[troglodytes]

So, you aren't too concerned with the amount of time it takes to go from boil to pitching temperature? Sounds like you let it cool initially pretty slowly, and then are able to ramp it up quickly, once you start the water running through the chiller. There definitely seems to be different takes on this issue.

Be nice to have ground water that cold, but I don't think I'd trade you climates!

I'm definitely concerned with dropping the temp quickly in the critical range for infection, so I drop from the 180s to pitching temp as fast as possible. I let the beer hang for that half hour while semi whirpooling because I've found I like the flavor with large amount of whirlpooled hops over dry hops, but that's just personal preference.

In theory I could just start stirring and cooling immediately and I doubt it would take more than 12 minutes from boil to pitch temp. I'd also have some tired forearms!

 

[kh54s10]

Stir, it will move chilled wort away from the chiller tubes allowing more warm wort to contact the tubing and get chilled.

Running wort through an immersion chiller is a bucket of ice water will warm the water around the tubing lowering the chilling so I don't think you could get it down to pitching temperature.

For this you need a counterflow chiller.

 

[GeorgeH2013]

Thanks for the input guys. I think I'll try stirring with a sanitized spoon next time, as opposed to swirling the chiller around. If my arms fall off, I'll look into that mixer attachment.

 

[Spartan1979]

I always rock the immersion chiller back and forth while I'm chilling.

 

[MaryB]

I stir with a sanitized spoon every 5 minutes. After each stir I rinse then drop the spoon in a 5 gallon bucket of star san I keep around for sanitizing. I leave the lid cracked a tiny bit in between for steam to escape(I have cats, no way can I leave the lid fully off! To much fur floating around no matter how often I clean the house!).

 

[divrguy]

I whirlpool with a paint stirrer on a Dewalt. Cools down fast, saves my arm and when I start getting around 100 I ramp up the speed and it starts aerating the wort. Has been working for years.

 

[mattdee1]

Pumping the wort through the coil and placing the coil in a water bath would work in theory, but doesn't seem to make much sense in light of the alternatives; it is much more of a sanitation nightmare than simply dropping the IC in the kettle to sanitize, and would probably yield no savings in time or water.

I shake my IC almost continuously to mix up the wort, otherwise I lose the temperature differential and chilling grinds to a halt. If this oxygenates the wort a bit then it's no big deal, and if you're in the camp that believes oxygenation prior to yeast pitching is beneficial, then you're killing two birds with one stone. Regardless, it will not hurt the beer.

I can't believe it never occurred to me to leave that clunky IC in the kettle and just use a stir thingy on my drill to move the wort around, but that is what I'll be trying next time.

 

[jpmess]

I watched a few of the videos from Jaded Brewing and their tips on increasing efficiency of IC's. I've only use mine three times (not a jaded chiller, its a fermentap I believe) but this last batch, I cooled with 67 degree water and was down to 74 in 11 minutes. They recommend moving the chiller the whole chilling process.

 

[petey_c]

Well, might as well add my own 2 cents... IC into the boiling wort ~ 20 min before flame out to sanitize. After flame out, IC and pot into sink. Start running water through IC and let drain for a min or two (BTW that first bit of water run through the IC is pretty effin' hot. Hmm, that could be an entry for the, "Don't Do That." thread.) Put a stopper in the sink and allow the water to fill up a bit then pull the plug and drain that water out. Repeat as necessary. Winter time with ~ 50 °F ground water temps about 10 min.. Oh yeah and stir to whirlpool/increase hot wort contact with cold chiller the entire time. Rinse paddle and set on napkin (serviette for the rest of the world) sanitized with starsan. O2 in the wort around pitching time is essential, because the yeast need that O2 to proliferate....

 

[Brewmegoodbeer]

Would wirlpooling effecf the coagulation of cold break and the fact that if you don't stir, the coagulated proteins fall out of suspension?

 

[chickypad]

Would wirlpooling effecf the coagulation of cold break and the fact that if you don't stir, the coagulated proteins fall out of suspension?

They fall right back out of suspension if you let it sit a few minutes after cooling. Not that I care much, as I just dump the whole lot into the fermenter.