Ok ok you've convinced me to try skipping the secondary: questions

[Gartywood]

So I've been reading all the comments about no secondary fermentation/clarification/conditioning vessel and think that I'm going to give it a whirl on the IPA that I just brewed up.

I've been avoiding this experiment as I feel like I'll get more clearer beer with the secondary as I can transfer over a bit of yeast and you get a thin layer on the bottom of secondary. With the primary I always have a deep layer of trub and in order to miss all of it I would have to leave a significant amount of beer in the fermenter.

Revvy's comments coupled with the transcript of John P and Jamil discussing the opinion that 2ndary is an outdated practice and giving good reasons to support have made me think. If I go straight to the keg and transfer the same amount of yeast to the keg that I would transfer to secondary I wont lose the pint of wort to the secondary and the small amount of yeast/trub will settle to the bottom of the keg.

Is this basically how you guys that skip secondary operate?

2nd question. How do you determine when to transfer to keg for a typical beer (that I would currently primary for 1-2 weeks and then move to secondary for 1-2 weeks)?

3rd question. When do you dry hop? As soon as active fermentation ends or something else?

 

[Yooper]

For me, I transfer as little trub as is humanly possible, and only rack over clear beer to the keg.

A couple of things really help- like using highly flocculant yeast. In a yeast strain like S04, the trub compacts down a lot and forms a tightly packed layer that is like soft concrete- it doesn't move when you rack. Some less flocculant strains will be "fluffier" but with about 2-3 weeks time in the fermenter, it is pretty packed down as well. Cold temperatures really aid that- if you stick the fermenter in a cold place for a day or two before racking, you'll have clear beer to rack off of the trub.

I normally keg most beers at 2-3 weeks, depending on what I'm making. First, the beer should be finished for at least 3 days, and then it will start to clear. Instead of counting days, I wait until the beer is reasonably clear and then keg it. Sometimes it's 10 days, sometimes it's 17 days.

For dryhopping, you want to do that about 5-7 days before packaging. That will give you the best/freshest hops aroma.

 

[Billybrewer09]

Just transfer to the keg like you would to secondary, trying to leave as much trub behind.
I usually let my beers sit in primary for at least 3 weeks before going to keg or dryhopping.

 

[Gartywood]

Just transfer to the keg like you would to secondary, trying to leave as much trub behind.
I usually let my beers sit in primary for at least 3 weeks before going to keg or dryhopping.

Yeah part of my decision to try this is I've been leaving the beer in primary for longer than I used to (based on brewing science advice on here). In the old days it was leave in primary until about 1 bubble/minute then transfer to secondary to finish so that the beer was still making co2 to protect from oxidation. I realize that I've basically been doing what a lot of brewers here do that skip secondary all together and then transferring to secondary and it's possible that the only thing that I'm doing with secondary is making it take longer to get to drinking it.

 

[tagz]

If you are dry hopping you might want to use a secondary or dry hop in the keg. Many people say you get better flavor if you eliminate as much yeast as you can before hopping. I listened to an interview recently where a professional brewer said they filter the yeast out before dry hopping for that specific reason. I forget the scientific explanation, maybe someone else can chime in. yeast attaches to hop particles?

Otherwise, no secondary is fine. Basic brewing did an experiment and observed no difference in clarity in either primary only or secondary batches.

 

[Gartywood]

Sounds like I'll try no secondary on the next batch then. I'm dry hopping this IPA and it's a special one. Take no chances I'll skip secondary on the porter that I'm planning next.

 

[chessking]

I forget the scientific explanation, maybe someone else can chime in. yeast attaches to hop particles?

I believe its the other way around. The hop oils attach to and coat the yeast, and when the yeast flocculates, the oils drop with them reducing the effect of the dry hop, and possibly shutting down the yeast prematurely.

 

[Piratwolf]

I believe its the other way around. The hop oils attach to and coat the yeast, and when the yeast flocculates, the oils drop with them reducing the effect of the dry hop, and possibly shutting down the yeast prematurely.

This.

Also, you may get a slight dry hop haze--but that can happen in secondary too

 

[brian74]

I have dry-hopped in the primary with no problems. Of course, pitch 'em at the end of primary fermentation and leave for 5-7 days as Yooper stated. I don't secondary anymore unless I am brewing a big Belgian or lagering.

 

[Kmcogar]

I tried not using a secondary once. I didn't like it. Now I always transfer

 

[AmandaK]

I have dry-hopped in the primary with no problems. Of course, pitch 'em at the end of primary fermentation and leave for 5-7 days as Yooper stated. I don't secondary anymore unless I am brewing a big Belgian or lagering.

I generally follow this same practice with my beers, even though I know that when hop oils contact yeasties it tends to strip some of the aromatics out. But I just don't wanna transfer it! So I just add more dry hops. No big.

 

[weremichael]

I agree with the posts regarding: using high flocc yeast, making sure you're at TG, and dropping the temp. a couple days before kegging. I have had great success doing this for the past four years and only use secondary for certain beers (some sours). I am curious to doubters as to what are the reasons why you don't like skipping the secondary.