Ok, I'm not just being paranoid about infections...

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This thread again.... So, if anybody remembers this thread, here it is again. Here's a reader's digest version: Bad batch after bad batch. Replaced all plastic. Bleached glass. Beer still went sour (fine in carboys, tastes sour after a few weeks in bottles).

After listening to everyone's suggestions, I decided to go on a hiatus, because I just couldn't bear the thought of wasting more time and money and then having sour beer.

I have a couple updates. Someone at the LHBS asked about my wort chiller. It is your basic copper immersion chiller. I looked at it, and it was a bit funky looking, but I do boil it for 15 minutes at every batch. I threw it away anyway.

Anyway, here is the main update. Several people suggested the maybe I have a house yeast... Well, we are moving, so I have a strong itch to brew after my 4 month hiatus.

So, here's the thing. Should I risk bringing along my equipment? Here's an abbreviated list:
-5 glass carboys
-1 ale pail given to my by a friend, never used in an infected batch
-Plastic hoses, airlocks, bungs, bottling wand, bottle tree, etc. - all recently replaced, but used in the last two infected batches
-Bench capper
-3 kettles (one 3 gallon SS - no fittings, one 6 gallon aluminum - no fittings, one morebeer heavy duty 10 gallon ss with screw in thermometer and ball valve)
-lots of bottles
-Starsan, pbw, oxyclean
-Caps
-Mash tun with ball valve / false bottom

So, that's my dilemma. What to keep?
 
I doubt that anyone wants to advise keeping anything at all, including the glass carboys. I'm kinda of the same opinion. If the infection was that persistent, it must be some kind of spore generating bacteria. Spores can withstand some really brutal environments. I would advise getting rid of anything that came into conatact with the wort including the glass carboys and kegs. This is obviously a last resort option. I would first try everything else possible and then I would run many test batches, but it sounds like you have already done that.
 
cheeseshark said:
This thread again.... So, if anybody remembers this thread, here it is again. Here's a reader's digest version: Bad batch after bad batch. Replaced all plastic. Bleached glass. Beer still went sour (fine in carboys, tastes sour after a few weeks in bottles).

After listening to everyone's suggestions, I decided to go on a hiatus, because I just couldn't bear the thought of wasting more time and money and then having sour beer.

I have a couple updates. Someone at the LHBS asked about my wort chiller. It is your basic copper immersion chiller. I looked at it, and it was a bit funky looking, but I do boil it for 15 minutes at every batch. I threw it away anyway.

Anyway, here is the main update. Several people suggested the maybe I have a house yeast... Well, we are moving, so I have a strong itch to brew after my 4 month hiatus.

So, here's the thing. Should I risk bringing along my equipment? Here's an abbreviated list:
-5 glass carboys
-1 ale pail given to my by a friend, never used in an infected batch
-Plastic hoses, airlocks, bungs, bottling wand, bottle tree, etc. - all recently replaced, but used in the last two infected batches
-Bench capper
-3 kettles (one 3 gallon SS - no fittings, one 6 gallon aluminum - no fittings, one morebeer heavy duty 10 gallon ss with screw in thermometer and ball valve)
-lots of bottles
-Starsan, pbw, oxyclean
-Caps
-Mash tun with ball valve / false bottom

So, that's my dilemma. What to keep?
Click to expand...

-Bench capper
-3 kettles (one 3 gallon SS - no fittings, one 6 gallon aluminum - no fittings, one morebeer heavy duty 10 gallon ss with screw in thermometer and ball valve)
-lots of bottles
-Starsan, pbw, oxyclean
-Caps
-Mash tun with ball valve / false bottom


I'd keep at least this part of your equip. Maybe trash the bottles, but I'd bet they're not the source of any infection. Good luck and happy brewing
 
Can't the bottles be sterilized by putting them in an oven? This isn't the Andromeda Strain is it?
 
shek said:
Can't the bottles be sterilized by putting them in an oven? This isn't the Andromeda Strain is it?
Click to expand...

Maybe not the Andromeda strain or the Ebola virus, but if it is one of the spore type bacteria it would take something like an autoclave to sterilize the equipment. Even full strength bleach won't kill the spores. I think if I had an infection problem like that, I would send some of the infected beer to a lab for analysis and find out what exactly the bad bug is. Then I would formulate a plan to be rid of it and do whatever it takes to make it happen. Replacing all that equipment is something no one wants to hear, but there may be no other option. Doing it part way and only getting rid of some equipment may work, but it's risky and if it doesn't get rid of the problem, you may have to get rid of the new equipment too. I think I would declare all out war on the bug first with PBW, lots of bleach, Star San and Iodophor. I'd boil the hell out of everything I could fit in the kettle and use boiling water on everything else. I would get replace all the most common suspects like hoses and fittings. Plastic buckets would go too. I would probably retain the kegs and glass carboys. Those are too costly to throw away except as a very last resort IMO. I sure hope this never happens to me. So far, so good.
 
Stef1966 said:
Just move up to Canada... too cold up here for any bacterias to survive...
Click to expand...

Where, exactly, is this Canada that you speak of? :drunk:

Some scientists think that spores could survive traveling through space. They tend to persist even in the most inhospitable places. They pretty much have the survival thing perfected.
 
Catt22 said:
Where, exactly, is this Canada that you speak of? :drunk:

Some scientists think that spores could survive traveling through space. They tend to persist even in the most inhospitable places. They pretty much have the survival thing perfected.
Click to expand...

Indeed... I guess i just have been pretty lucky so far, I only use a bleach based soap to clean/sanitize my stuff and i will cross my fingers but after a bit more than 2 years of brewing, never had the misfortune of catching an infection in any batch of beer i brewed.
 
Catt22 said:
Where, exactly, is this Canada that you speak of? :drunk:

Some scientists think that spores could survive traveling through space. They tend to persist even in the most inhospitable places. They pretty much have the survival thing perfected.
Click to expand...

Lots of people have trouble finding Canada, what with it all tucked away down there....
 
shek said:
Lots of people have trouble finding Canada.
Click to expand...

Thats a good thing, I do enjoy the calm and open spaces of my country, plus it's not overcrowded and filled with a huge crime rate and economic disaster like some other countries i wont mention here...
 
I'm no infection expert, but based on reading lots of threads and listening to lots of podcasts, your infection problem almost has to be airborne.

I wouldn't throw away any of your equipment. I would bring it along and leave it in the garage. Make a batch in your garage and see what happens. If you get the same infection, throw out the plastic stuff.

I don't think there's any kind of strain that's so bad that you would need to throw away glass carboys or kettles.

Hell, I would buy "infected" carboys if I saw them on Craigslist. It's glass, it should be cleanable.

Also, you might want to think about switching from airlocks to a carboy cap or just aluminum foil - less chance of airborne contaminants that way.
 
I'd do a batch w/ no secondary fermentation (maybe a Hefe). Do it in the ale pail, take the carboys out of the equation (hopefully you haven't tried this).
 
Stef,

Do you happen to mill your own grain? I'm wondering if you may have lactobacillus floating around in your brewery that may have originated with incoming malt. I think all malted grain has some lacto along for the ride. Avoid milling grain near bottles or bottling equipment for the same reason. I mill my grain outdoors for this very reason. Don't know what to tell you to try next, except don't give up. It's a surmountable problem.
 
Catt22 said:
Stef,

Do you happen to mill your own grain? I'm wondering if you may have lactobacillus floating around in your brewery that may have originated with incoming malt. I think all malted grain has some lacto along for the ride. Avoid milling grain near bottles or bottling equipment for the same reason. I mill my grain outdoors for this very reason. Don't know what to tell you to try next, except don't give up. It's a surmountable problem.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. No, I don't mill my own grain. I know it's a long thread, but I have kind of ruled out most of the typical things one would think of when battling infections. At this point, I am really just wondering what people think about reference the equipment issue (what to keep, see page 9).
 
Do you know anyone that works in a hospital/medical office? Anybody that might have access to a larger autoclave? Or you could try building a UV box with a shoplight or something to sanitize your carboys so you can still use them. (Think a big mirrored box with a huge blacklight on top of it). Also as it seems to affect you as well as your beer, you should look into gettting yourself a Living Air. I inherited one and it's wonderful.
 
You could take some of your infected beer and send it to your state college outreach program. Here in Virgina services like this are provided by Virginia Tech. They will have their grad students and profs take a look at it (for a small cost) and let you know what the infection is. It is up to you to find out where it comes from.

Personally, it sounds to me like the house had a mold problem. Mold can exist and you won't see it, or it can be really bad and the inside of your walls look like a marsh.
 
I think I'm just set on starting anew - I just can't bear the thought of another ruined batch. I might have to light something on fire if it happens again.
 
Before you take the hit on selling off your equipment and building it up all over again, why not make the investment in a kegging set up. It doesn't make sense to me that there's a problem with something in your process or equipment before the bottling phase, if each time it takes 4 weeks of being in the bottle for the infection to surface. The one time I purposefully infected my beer with lacto, the sourness was noticeable very quickly, within a few days.

Anyways, I keg my own brews, but help my friends bottle theirs, I prefer my method :eek:
 
im no home brew expert and have only brewed maybe 25 kits in the last 8 months but try this.

#1 brew at someone else's house with your equipment
#2 purchase your ingredients from another store

I once have had the extensive amount foam shoot out of the bottles before. it was from a festa brew cream ale kit which tasted bad.

i brew solely in my kitchen and ferment in a small dark closed room in my basement. i also don't have an airlock primary fermenter, i simply leave the lid loose on top of the bucket.

i noticed some people talk about their AC being contaminated. i dont have AC, and use electric heating in my house so no furnace. i also dont have carpet in my house either. perhaps something is learing its ugly head from the carpet?

hope things work out. dont give up!

:mug:
 
I'm so paranoid that I have house-borne nasties floating around that I'm having my forced air furnace and ducts cleaned and sanitized.
I hope that solves my persistent infection problems.
(or, maybe it's just that I'm dirty)
 
I've been told that the reason i never had an infected batch of beer is because i'm way up North in Canada... i'm beginning to think it's making sense... cause i'm probably not even half as anal about sterilization as most of you guys are.

Just using bleach based soap on my kit and thats about it... go figure... ?
 
This was a great thread for me. I've been having almost exactly the same infection problems. All the advice has been quite interesting (though of dubious benefit, since the consensus seems to be if there is an icky airborne bug I am SOL). Any update on if the move fixed things?
 
kaastel said:
This was a great thread for me. I've been having almost exactly the same infection problems. All the advice has been quite interesting (though of dubious benefit, since the consensus seems to be if there is an icky airborne bug I am SOL). Any update on if the move fixed things?
Click to expand...

Well, I would be happy to provide an update, as home brewing has really been on my mind lately.

I basically had enough, and sold all of my equipment (with full disclosure on the infection problems, in fact I linked to this thread in my CL ad, the buyers did not care). In fact, did anyone here buy the equipment? If so, did you have any problems?

Anyway, right after I sold all the stuff, I moved. My plan was to buy all new stuff after we got settled in. Well, here is where the story gets weird. There are several rows of grape vines in our yard that were well tended. The previous owner of the home, an elderly woman, passed away a few years before we moved in.

A few months after we moved in, I was chatting with the neighbor and I asked him about the grape vines. He said, "Oh, Riva made wine with those grapes for years and years. But, she had to stop because the wine kept going bad the last few years. She said it was an infection or something."

No, I am not making this up. So, it's like, wtf. I am debating on the risk of buying new equipment and then having problems. I would say the chances are high that she was just getting on in her years, and wasn't cleaning things the way she should, thus leading to the infections, but still. It's like someone doesn't want me to make beer.

Sorry for the long winded update. That is all.
 

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